LDS Might Get the Wrong Message From This Play

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LongJourney said:
Many ex-LDS are opposed to all religion. Having experienced the LDS religion, and having had no experience with anything else, they would prefer to be unquestioning atheists. The LDS culture is implicitly anti-Catholic. (Neuro, don’t ask. I can supply many sources.) Having been shaped by LDS culture, ex-LDS frequently become explicitly anti-Catholic.

So, in some ways, I reluctantly have to agree with Neuro.
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While we’re reluctantly agreeing with each other, I’ve noticed a fair share of Catholic criticism coming from Mormons over the years. It’s one of the reasons I’m here at CAF - to learn about you folks and root out any nonsense I may have internalized at an early age.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I was talking about the volunteers on the arts council, but apparently LDS hold the arts in such contempt that it would be unthinkable for them to volunteer in the community in such a capacity.
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Outside of Utah, you don’t have much of a point here. Inside Utah, there are segments of culture of “outside the church = not worth my time”. It’s not all Utah mormons, but some. Speaking from my own experiences from 1970-1995, I’d guess maybe 5-10% of the active believing LDS in or around the main population centers of Utah would fit your accusation. It’s a shame for people to be closedminded, no matter what church they’re in.
Sorry about my presumption, it’s just around here communities put a lot of stock in the arts, among the offerings put together by volunteers in near by communities, an amazing symphony orchestra, a gallery that features local artists and has special shows and a 500 seat theater for plays, concerts and even a student film festival for the regions’ high schools. But I can see you wouldn’t consider these art thingies worthwhile.
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Not sure why you would see such a message coming from me. In and out of my church, I’ve appreciated art. I’ve attended symphonies and art shows. I toured Europe with my music class from the U of U. I just finished signing my kids up for band, art, and poetry classes. My next date night with my wife, we’re going painting. (Again)

Did I do something to offend you, zaffiroborant?
 
I think most of you need to lighten up. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill.
 
May I say something please? I was reading this thread, and what I read has really made me feel sad.

I agree that the play had very bad taste- I couldn’t hear much of the video because of bad sound quality, but the part I heard made me wince. I doubt any LDS people who brought their families would have approved of it- that is not the sort of thing I could imagine any of my LDS friends watching or enjoying.

I am LDS, and I have never felt anti-Catholic in the least bit, and I’ve never received that sort of message from any leaders of our church, or any other members. I have always had the utmost respect for other religions, especially other Christians. Anyone who can stick to their faith so strongly in today’s moral climate is worthy of admiration.

What made me sad is the fact that people are making such disparaging comments about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This should be a time when all Christians, despite the differences in the points of Doctrine we beleive, should be banding together with love and friendship, not pulling eachother apart. We are taught many of the same things that you are, we have many similar values, and we could have meaningful friendships if we didn’t try to tear eachother apart.

Please take this comment kindly, I’ve poured a lot of my heart into it, and it is all sincere.

-Sonnet
 
NeuroTypical said:
Outside of Utah, you don’t have much of a point here. Inside Utah, there are segments of culture of “outside the church = not worth my time”. It’s not all Utah mormons, but some. Speaking from my own experiences from 1970-1995, I’d guess maybe 5-10% of the active believing LDS in or around the main population centers of Utah would fit your accusation. It’s a shame for people to be closedminded, no matter what church they’re in.
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You seem to want it both ways here, it couldn’t be LDS who decided to put on a play that mocks Catholicism because LDS don’t really volunteer in this type of activity .

" Mormons did road shows held in churches, non-lds people did performing art thingies.
  • Mormon volunteering is stuff like road cleanup, Scouting organizations, stuff for sick and afflicted and poor and elderly and widows. Mormon volunteering is not “let’s organize an arts council and put on plays and have a website”."*
Now you’re saying only 5-10 percent of LDS actually think this way, the other 90-95 percent would see value in volunteering in an “arts council”. If 90-95 percent of the LDS in Highland City are people that would volunteer in the arts and a large majority of people in HC are LDS it makes sense that the council would be in large part LDS too.
NeuroTypical said:
Not sure why you would see such a message coming from me. In and out of my church, I’ve appreciated art. I’ve attended symphonies and art shows. I toured Europe with my music class from the U of U. I just finished signing my kids up for band, art, and poetry classes. My next date night with my wife, we’re going painting. (Again)

Did I do something to offend you, zaffiroborant?
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I didn’t mean “you” I meant (for lack of an alternative) ya’ll, English really needs a plural “you” pronoun.
 
Sonnet said:
What made me sad is the fact that people are making such disparaging comments about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
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Would you point out the comments you find disparaging?
 
I’m glad you have never been anti-Catholic. When I was LDS, I wasn’t either. However, I was taught in seminary that the Catholic Church is the “great and abominable church of the devil”. Also, the founder of your church stated that the Mormon god told him that, in reference to other churches, “all their creeds are an abomination in his sight;that those professors were all corrupt”. (see Joseph Smith - History 1:19)
Sonnet said:
We are taught many of the same things that you are
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If you think that the LDS church teaches many of the same things as the Catholic Church, then you may not know as much about Catholicism as you think. There are many great tracts on this website that you can read to learn more about Catholicism. That’s ok. I thought I knew a lot about true Christianity when I was Mormon. However, when I actually started studying Christianity, I could see that Christianity and Mormonism are worlds apart. It starts with major differences with regards to who God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are and the differences just continue from there.
 
zaffiroborant said:
You seem to want it both ways here, it couldn’t be LDS who decided to put on a play that mocks Catholicism because LDS don’t really volunteer in this type of activity .

" Mormons did road shows held in churches, non-lds people did performing art thingies.
  • Mormon volunteering is stuff like road cleanup, Scouting organizations, stuff for sick and afflicted and poor and elderly and widows. Mormon volunteering is not “let’s organize an arts council and put on plays and have a website”."*
Now you’re saying only 5-10 percent of LDS actually think this way, the other 90-95 percent would see value in volunteering in an “arts council”. If 90-95 percent of the LDS in Highland City are people that would volunteer in the arts and a large majority of people in HC are LDS it makes sense that the council would be in large part LDS too.
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Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my thoughts - I agree they seem all over the map. Here are my thoughts on the matter:
  • That skit in that video was awful. Bunch of guffawing snarky people getting kicks out of making fun of the adherents of a religion. Shameful.
  • If Highland City Arts (whoever they are) is putting on a similar production, then I’d guess that production will be awful too.
  • I’ve never seen a group of mormons get together and do something like this. Certainly it wasn’t organized by the church.
  • I have seen many, many, many dissafected mormons, former mormons, and bitter sarcastic inactive mormons engage in this sort of stuff.
  • You can find this sort of sneering mockery, marching under the banner of “art”, anywhere. Even in places known for high concentrations of mormons.
  • I am thinking there is a high probability that almost zero active LDS folks are present in that video’s cast, crew, or audience. If the HCA people put on something similar, I continue to think it’s most likely that there are close to zero active LDS folks present.
  • If there are individual active mormons in the cast or audience, shame on them. (And shame on them if they’re not mormons, too.)
  • Honestly, I don’t think y’all need to be worried about this being a mormon thing at all. Even thrown in the middle of an almost exclusively-LDS area, there’s not much reason to believe any active, believing mormons are involved. A similar deal: You can find bars and pubs in areas where 90+% of the population are mormons and don’t drink. Take a look.
 
NeuroTypical said:
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my thoughts - I agree they seem all over the map. Here are my thoughts on the matter:
  • That skit in that video was awful. Bunch of guffawing snarky people getting kicks out of making fun of the adherents of a religion. Shameful.
  • If Highland City Arts (whoever they are) is putting on a similar production, then I’d guess that production will be awful too.
  • I’ve never seen a group of mormons get together and do something like this. Certainly it wasn’t organized by the church.
  • I have seen many, many, many dissafected mormons, former mormons, and bitter sarcastic inactive mormons engage in this sort of stuff.
  • You can find this sort of sneering mockery, marching under the banner of “art”, anywhere. Even in places known for high concentrations of mormons.
  • I am thinking there is a high probability that almost zero active LDS folks are present in that video’s cast, crew, or audience. If the HCA people put on something similar, I continue to think it’s most likely that there are close to zero active LDS folks present.
  • If there are individual active mormons in the cast or audience, shame on them. (And shame on them if they’re not mormons, too.)
  • Honestly, I don’t think y’all need to be worried about this being a mormon thing at all. Even thrown in the middle of an almost exclusively-LDS area, there’s not much reason to believe any active, believing mormons are involved. A similar deal: You can find bars and pubs in areas where 90+% of the population are mormons and don’t drink. Take a look.
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This play is advertised as appropriate family fare, I see no reason to believe that there will be zero or next to zero active LDS in the audience. There is a huge difference between being on an arts council or attending a play and going to a bar, this is a totally worthless comparison and you know it.
 
“Arts councils” in the United States, almost universally, are steered by the most liberal, secularistic elements of the community: neither the funding sources, nor the performers, nor the majority of the audience of productions put out by ‘arts councils’ in any community are likely to be faithful members of any church which embraces traditional values and culture.

Mormons, more than most Evangelical sects (which they most closely resemble) are somewhat more fond of high culture and beautiful art and music. They are less likely to support values-challenging “cutting-edge” sorts of productions. This does NOT look like something which most LDS would attend.

FORMER LDS, along with other groups on the margins in a largely Mormon community–gays, non-Christians, social activists–these are the folks likeliest to be responsible for the production cited in the OP. Given the likely, inherent conservatism of the community, the adverting has to find ways to draw an audience: naming it a “family-friendly” show is likely a strategy to that end. After all, playing too often to an empty house can lead to loss of funding from state/regional/nation arts councils.
 
flameburns623 said:
“Arts councils” in the United States, almost universally, are steered by the most liberal, secularistic elements of the community: neither the funding sources, nor the performers, nor the majority of the audience of productions put out by ‘arts councils’ in any community are likely to be faithful members of any church which embraces traditional values and culture.

Mormons, more than most Evangelical sects (which they most closely resemble) are somewhat more fond of high culture and beautiful art and music. They are less likely to support values-challenging “cutting-edge” sorts of productions. This does NOT look like something which most LDS would attend.

FORMER LDS, along with other groups on the margins in a largely Mormon community–gays, non-Christians, social activists–these are the folks likeliest to be responsible for the production cited in the OP. Given the likely, inherent conservatism of the community, the adverting has to find ways to draw an audience: naming it a “family-friendly” show is likely a strategy to that end. After all, playing too often to an empty house can lead to loss of funding from state/regional/nation arts councils.
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I work for a non-profit, that supports the arts. There are a lot more people of faith than you imagine. 🙂 What you have going, are stereotypes. By far the commonality is a lack of support for censorship, i.e., all voices allowed to be heard. Of course, this makes for material that individuals will agree with, and material that individuals do not agree with.

I imagine the Highland Arts council is very small, with a very limited budget. Landing a traveling play is good work for a small arts council. I’m also guessing, based on experience at my workplace, that they didn’t pick the play itself, but picked the company that is putting on the play based on availability and budget. Now, they have a play and need to build the audience, in a community that is homogenous LDS.

I feel for them. They’re trying to appeal to “family values”, with a play that isn’t so much that. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt, that they are doing the best they can.
 
RebeccaJ said:
I work for a non-profit, that supports the arts. There are a lot more people of faith than you imagine. 🙂 What you have going, are stereotypes. By far the commonality is a lack of support for censorship, i.e., all voices allowed to be heard. Of course, this makes for material that individuals will agree with, and material that individuals do not agree with.

I imagine the Highland Arts council is very small, with a very limited budget. Landing a traveling play is good work for a small arts council. I’m also guessing, based on experience at my workplace, that they didn’t pick the play itself, but picked the company that is putting on the play based on availability and budget. Now, they have a play and need to build the audience, in a community that is homogenous LDS.

I feel for them. They’re trying to appeal to “family values”, with a play that isn’t so much that. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt, that they are doing the best they can.
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If the play portrayed Muslims in a negative way, it would be unacceptable and it would not be put on. Catholicism however is fair game. The council has the power to say “no” and they are not using it. As such, they can do better.
 
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