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lax16
Guest
That does help explain it. How many people came on the first two boats? How many years passed before the wars started? Did they have weapons and horses with them on the boats?
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lax16
Guest
I am assuming they were sealed to high ranking LDS in order to continue to serve them in heaven as they did on earth. This must mean servants aren’t equal to their masters, even in heaven?
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Vico
Guest
Thirteen to fourteen thousand years ago, people are thought to have walked across the ice from Russia to America. Native Americans can trace their origins to the remote region of the Altai in southern Siberia (at the center of Russia).
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KathleenGee
Guest
The Mormons need to do excavations in America.
If their findings prove correct, this will be some message to the Jewish people…if I am understanding right, America is the place of the Lost Tribe of Israel??
They are doing all sorts of archaeological work in Rome…inadvertently encountered the hidden tomb of St. Peter the apostle in Rome…underneath the altar…doing some other kind of repair work, and likewise are not coming to any conclusions.
Would like the Mormon Church with all its claims to also follow the Catholic Church to do some digging in the dirt.
If their findings prove correct, this will be some message to the Jewish people…if I am understanding right, America is the place of the Lost Tribe of Israel??
They are doing all sorts of archaeological work in Rome…inadvertently encountered the hidden tomb of St. Peter the apostle in Rome…underneath the altar…doing some other kind of repair work, and likewise are not coming to any conclusions.
Would like the Mormon Church with all its claims to also follow the Catholic Church to do some digging in the dirt.
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drac16
Guest
I don’t doubt that Joseph Smith saw something. I don’t think it was an angel, though. I think it was something far more sinister (an evil jinn). A jinn wouldn’t have to be honest to JS. If a jinn wanted to appear and say “Hey, I’m an angel named Moroni”, it could very well do that.
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Padres1969
Guest
Correct, that was a typo. Blame Apple for it
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antihippy79
Guest
That’s an interesting theory. I also believe Muhammad received his revelation from a demon. Their revelation stories bare many similarities.
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drac16
Guest
Well, for one, Joseph Smith was a convicted fraud, years before his first vision (he lied about being able to find buried treasure with a seer stone). For Muhammad [peace be upon him], it was the exact opposite. People called him ‘The Trustworthy’. Even his enemies knew he was trustworthy.
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antihippy79
Guest
You seem to misunderstand my point. I am not questioning either men’s trustworthiness. I question the nature of the creature that interacted and inspired them. Muhammad may be trustworthy (although there is no non-Muslim sources to back this claim), there is no reason to believe the “angel” that gave him the text to the Koran was from our Father.
In fact, I would be more willing to believe in the Mormon inspiration story than the Islamic story because the fruits of the religions are totally different.
A question for you sir: Why do you admire Bilal Phillips (as listed in your profile)? He is a man who has been banned from entering Germany, Australia and Britain. He is also an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center Bombings. This is what I mean by “fruits” of a religion.
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drac16
Guest
OK, I’m sorry for that misunderstanding. I disagree with you, but I understand your point. You can check out Karen Armstrong’s work, particularly, a book called “A prophet for our time”. She’s a non-muslim who affirms his sound character.
I wasn’t aware that Bilal Phillips was involved in that. If he was, I will happily remove him from being an inspiration of mine. Truth be told, I don’t watch much of him anymore. I hope you don’t think of me as one who secretly agrees with bombings, death threats and such. I would hope that my posts over the last few years have dispelled that.
It makes me sad when someone thinks I am X, when my beliefs and behaviour shows Y. Heck, that happens among muslims more so than amongst non-muslims. I get it for being a sufi. That’s what made me renounce the Sunni faith.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Hi Drac…
In Christianity, St Gabriel the Angel is one who ‘points out’ some thing significant.
He appeared to Abraham and prevented him from sacrificing his son and instead…the Angel then pointed to the ram stuck in the bush.
St. Gabriel appeared to Mary telling her she would become the mother of the messiah…she questioned as she was consecrated to God alone and did not want man. The Angel told her that with God all things are possible.
Then Gabriel appeared to the shepherds…and pointed to them the infant placed in an animal feeder and wrapped in swaddling clothes.
what is the account of Gabriel…if it is him…who encountered Muhammed?
In Christianity, St Gabriel the Angel is one who ‘points out’ some thing significant.
He appeared to Abraham and prevented him from sacrificing his son and instead…the Angel then pointed to the ram stuck in the bush.
St. Gabriel appeared to Mary telling her she would become the mother of the messiah…she questioned as she was consecrated to God alone and did not want man. The Angel told her that with God all things are possible.
Then Gabriel appeared to the shepherds…and pointed to them the infant placed in an animal feeder and wrapped in swaddling clothes.
what is the account of Gabriel…if it is him…who encountered Muhammed?
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drac16
Guest
Muhammad would often go to a mountain in Mecca in order to relax and meditate. In the year 610 A.D., when Muhammad was relaxing in a cave [on the mountain], Gabriel appeared to Muhammad in human form. Gabriel grabbed him tightly and said “Read!”, Muhammad replied “I cannot read”. For a second time, Gabriel said “Read!” and Muhammad said “I cannot read”. If memory serves me correctly, there was a third time where Gabriel said “Read!” and Muhammad said “What shall I read?”.
Then the first verses of the Qur’an were revealed: “Read (Proclaim!) in the name of your Lord Who created. Created man, out of a clot (of congealed blood). Read! (Proclaim), and your Lord is the Most Generous, who taught by the Pen. Taught man that which he knew not” (surah 96:1-5)
After those five verses were given to him, He exited the cave and saw Gabriel again, but in his neutral form. Everywhere he looked, there was Gabriel; telling him that he’s a messenger of Allah. Muhammad was terrified by this, so he ran home and said, to his wife, “Cover me! cover me!”. His wife, Khadijah, comforted him and believed in what was revealed. That was not the only time Muhammad saw an angel, though. He saw Gabriel again during Muhammad’s ascension; Muhammad traveled from Mecca to Jerusalem [in one night] and then ascended to Paradise to hear God’s instructions on prayer.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Thank you, Drac.
I know of the basic separation between Sunnis and Shi ites. Do the Sunnis follow the same passage as you shared? Thanks.
I know of the basic separation between Sunnis and Shi ites. Do the Sunnis follow the same passage as you shared? Thanks.
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Dorothy
Guest
Wouldn’t all this talk of what Muhammed experienced be confusing to some? I am aware that it is being explained that way because that is what the Moslems believe.
God does not contradict Himself. There cannot be two truths. Muhammed was deceived.
There are Christians who give up the Way, the Truth, and the Life…Our Lord Jesus Christ, because they too become deceived.
God does not contradict Himself. There cannot be two truths. Muhammed was deceived.
There are Christians who give up the Way, the Truth, and the Life…Our Lord Jesus Christ, because they too become deceived.
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drac16
Guest
You’re welcome. I typed out the Sunni understanding of the first vision. It was based on my memory of having read a hadith about it a long time ago. As for the Shi’a view of the first vision, I don’t know anything about it. Their hadiths are different, so it may be different than the Sunni understanding. Unfortunately, I don’t even know where to find Shi’a hadith books that are in English, so I have no way of knowing how they understand it. Sorry.
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KathleenGee
Guest
I think the difference so far is that the Angel Gabriel in Judeo Christian tradition is that he is pointing over to something…first to a ram…then comes to the Blessed Virgin to say that God has chosen her to be the mother of the Messiah…and then the Angel Gabriel pointing again to the Infant…noting wrapped in swaddling clothes and laid in manger.
The ram stuck in the bush…Christ was born in the constellation of the Ram, Aries…but came to us as the Lamb…and then He was placed in a manger…an animal feeder…to become as sacrificial Lamb, nourishment of life to us.
Mohammed is dictated to read.
The ram stuck in the bush…Christ was born in the constellation of the Ram, Aries…but came to us as the Lamb…and then He was placed in a manger…an animal feeder…to become as sacrificial Lamb, nourishment of life to us.
Mohammed is dictated to read.
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