Leading to Death

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thinkandmull

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1 John 5:16-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.

So we shouldn’t pray for those in mortal sin? Or is it talking about those who have committed the sin against the Holy Ghost, like St. Paul speaks of in Hebrews.
 
ChibiViolet said:
This link is the best that I could find regarding your question: carm.org/apologetics/verses-examined/1-john-516-17-sin-leading-death
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Just be aware that CARM and Matt Slick have some anti-Catholic leanings in their interpretations. Not just ‘different’ but ANTI.

This particular link doesn’t have that anti slant, and this particular link has nothing for the Catholic to fight about or disagree with, and I found the limited explanation to be plausible enough…

Beyond that, I don’t have :twocents: to add. I was always taught to pray for anyone and everyone who needed it, regardless of my ‘knowledge’ about their state of mortal sin…

I will spend some time digging up any Catholic comments on this verse today.

Peace in Christ
 
No Catholic should be getting information from CARM.

The passage simply states that prayer alone is not enough to return someone from a state of mortal sin to a state of grace. Prayer alone however, is enough to remove venial sin.

We can and should pray for anyone in a state of mortal sin. Wouldn’t we want someone to pray for us if we were in such a state?

-Tim-
 
" And you have become arrogant, and have not mourned instead, in order that the one who had done this deed might be removed from your midst. 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

From 1 Cor 5, this “deliver… to Satan” is not death. This was, as I understand, a medicinal punishment. Banishment for a time from the Church community.

I always thought that the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit was the only “unforgiveable sin” while other mortal sins could be forgiven.
 
TimothyH said:
No Catholic should be getting information from CARM.

The passage simply states that prayer alone is not enough to return someone from a state of mortal sin to a state of grace. Prayer alone however, is enough to remove venial sin.

We can and should pray for anyone in a state of mortal sin. Wouldn’t we want someone to pray for us if we were in such a state?

-Tim-
Click to expand...
Perfect contrition? I think he’s talking about people who have given up their last chance for grace. Usually Catholic theologians have taught that that happens at the hour of death, but Hebrews speaks of it
 
Here is what the Glossa Ordinaria says

He that knows his brother. He is talking of the everyday and light sins which are healed as easily as they are difficultly avoided. If you have sinned in word, in thought, by forgetfulness or by ignorance, confess to a brother, as James teaches, ask him to intercede for you (Jm. 5). And if he confesses to you in his turn, intercede for him too. Here the prayer of the Lord suffices, and mutual confession. It is a light penitence. Then if the sin is a serious one, bring in the priests of the church, and chastise yourself after their examination. (Bede Expo. On 1 John)

There is a sin to death which separates you from God as death separates the soul from God. There is a sin to death.

The Lord orders to pray for persecutors; here he (John) says that there are some people for whom you must not pray, because there are sins in brothers that are more serious than the persecution of enemies; the sin of a brother is to death when, after the knowledge of God was given to him through grace of God, someone attacks the brotherhood, and is agitated by the firebrands of envy against the grace by which he was reconciled. It is a sin not to death if someone has not removed his love from his brother, but through some weakness of the mind has not fulfilled the duties of brotherhood, whence Christ, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Lk. 23:34), for they had not yet been made sharers through the grace of the Spirit and had not yet entered the society of the holy brotherhood. So did Stephen too pray for those who had not received God’s grace. Paul does not pray for Alexander; because, as he was already a brother, he was attacking the brotherhood. For those who had yielded out of fear he does pray. All left me alone but may it not be laid to their charge (ref. 2 Tim. 4:16). (Bede Expo. On 1 John)

Because that which is not corrected in this life, its pardon is hoped in vain after death; it can also be taken as referring to any criminal sin. Whatever differs from the measure of equity is numbered among sins, but the very little sins are not prejudicial to the just; but some sins are so opposed to all justice that if they are not corrected they plunge you into punishment.
 
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