Learning Liturgical Ukrainian

[Freshman88]

A year or so ago I experienced something during the Divine Liturgy that caused me to revert. Instead of pursuing Eastern Christianity I became attracted to the Tridentine mass, perhaps because I feel a similar feeling of reverence. Anyway, as much as I admire the ancient Roman rite, I am starting to wonder if my soul is more inclined to the East.

The problem I have though, is that I am an anglophone in Quebec, and the local Ukrainian Catholic Church only has the liturgy in Ukrainian or French.

Rather then learn French, I want to learn Ukrainian and get in touch with my ancestral roots. Now I am a very busy student athlete, but if I do find a way to squeeze in Ukrainian, how should I go about it? Does anyone know of anywhere I can go to learn specifically Ukrainian in a religious/liturgical context?

I already know some phrases, naughty words, and I can read cyrillic. Would it be best to go to the service and learn Ukrainian like I learned Liturgical Latin at the Tridentine mass? By that I mean simply referring to a missal with Ukrainian adjacent to an English translation - and learning more and more phrases with every service?

Or would it be more productive to start with beginners Ukrainian or conversational Ukrainian?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Just start attending. You’ll be surprised how much you can pick up after you get over the symbol barrier of the Cyrllic alphabet. (It’s just enough like Slavonic for me to continually trip me up.)

 

[Freshman88]

Just start attending. You’ll be surprised how much you can pick up after you get over the symbol barrier of the Cyrllic alphabet. (It’s just enough like Slavonic for me to continually trip me up.)

That’s what I thought - a similar process worked for me while I was learning the Latin of the Traditional Latin mass.

And I’ve already climbed that symbol barrier, in an earlier attempt to self-tutor myself Ukrainian - which ofcourse ultimatley failed .

Would beginners courses in Ukrainian be beneficial? Or would it require extensive studying of Ukrainian before it could become beneficial - keep in mind that the homilies are in French and Ukrainian.

 

[Aramis]

That’s what I thought - a similar process worked for me while I was learning the Latin of the Traditional Latin mass.

And I’ve already climbed that symbol barrier, in an earlier attempt to self-tutor myself Ukrainian - which ofcourse ultimatley failed .

Would beginners courses in Ukrainian be beneficial? Or would it require extensive studying of Ukrainian before it could become beneficial - keep in mind that the homilies are in French and Ukrainian.

Any cyrillo-slavic language course would be helpful; Russian and Ukrainian are mutually intelligible, as are Ukrainian and Slavonic, Slavonic and Russian, and several other slavic tongues.

The biggest differences are the conjugational/declension patterns, though some root words differ as well.

Also note: there are different versions of the Cyrillic Azbucha (alphabet)… Ukrainian has some letters that Russian lacks, as does Church Slavonic; Modern Russian has been repeatedly simplified, and modern Ukrainian has been russified due to the Soviet occupation.

 

[Freshman88]

Any cyrillo-slavic language course would be helpful; Russian and Ukrainian are mutually intelligible, as are Ukrainian and Slavonic, Slavonic and Russian, and several other slavic tongues.

The biggest differences are the conjugational/declension patterns, though some root words differ as well.

Also note: there are different versions of the Cyrillic Azbucha (alphabet)… Ukrainian has some letters that Russian lacks, as does Church Slavonic; Modern Russian has been repeatedly simplified, and modern Ukrainian has been russified due to the Soviet occupation.

Well, the whole family is from Western Ukraine, South-East Poland, and being Soviet-era refugees, I’ve been raised with some good ol’ Ukrainian nationalism - I don’t have any desire to be learning Russian or any kind of russified Ukrainian.

Anyway, it sounds like a beginners course wouldn’t hurt, and I know the Ukrainian club on campus offers free lessons. I’ll see what I can do.

 

[Diak]

Hey, if a guy like me, a fifth-generation who grew up in Oklahoma and had absolutely no exposure until college can do it, anyone can. I actually find it easier to read Ukrainian straight from the liturgical text in the Cyrillic than the various transliterations which always trip me up when I am trying to chant.

CDs of the Liturgy from places like Sts. Volodymyr and Olha in Chicago, the Studites in Ukraine, etc. are very helpful. Also “Ukrainian with ease” and other programs are out there as well.

Shcho bilshe mozhu skazaty???
Fr. Deacon RLB

p.s. the Ukrainian club is a great idea; don’t be surprised if some members from Eastern Ukraine do indeed speak a russified Ukrainian or Ukrainian with a sort of Russian accent.

 

[Volodymyr]

Shcho bilshe mozhu skazaty???
Fr. Deacon RLB

Більше можу сказати що українська мова не є літургійної мовою. Церковнославянська мова - ця мова є задля літругії. Україньска мова у західої україні має польський акцент. Cхідна мова вожможливо має російський акцент - або що ліпше, що хуже??

More I can say - that Ukrainian is NOT a liturgical language. This is everyday language. Church Slavonic language is the language for liturgy. Ukrainian language in west has very much Polish Character and acsent. (They call Lord - Pan and not Hospod’). But Eastern Ukrainian may have a Russian accent - but which is better or which is worse??

Do not be so opposed to things from Russia. I have different view by birth. Most of my family lives in Belgorod in Russia. Russians consider this city odd because so many speak with Ukrainian accents - say it is not really Russian.

But also why can you live in Quebec and not speak French? I served in Africa at once and came to like really French language - maybe liturgy sounds better in French. If your church church does not use true Liturgic language - use any everyday language - English, French, Ukrainian. It doesn’t matter then. My UOC priests say liturgy only in Church Slavonic.

 

[Diak]

Більше можу сказати що українська мова не є літургійної мовою. Церковнославянська мова - ця мова є задля літругії. Україньска мова у західої україні має польський акцент. Cхідна мова вожможливо має російський акцент - або що ліпше, що хуже??

More I can say - that Ukrainian is NOT a liturgical language. This is everyday language. Church Slavonic language is the language for liturgy. Ukrainian language in west has very much Polish Character and acsent. (They call Lord - Pan and not Hospod’). But Eastern Ukrainian may have a Russian accent - but which is better or which is worse??

не правда - not in all cases. Ukrainian, and not Slavonic is the primary liturgical language for the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church/Kyivan Patriarchate, the Ukrainain Autocephalous Orthodox Church as well as the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Canada and the U.S. which is under Constantinople. Certainly in the case of the Moscow Patriarchate parishes they do indeed keep Church Slavonic.

I certainly did not intend to be negative of Russian, and apologize if my post inferred that. All of my friends from Donbas, Cherkassy, Dniepropetrovsk, etc. all either speak Russian or Ukrainian with slight Russian accent, and I was only making that observation.

It is true that those from Left Bank who speak Russian as first language often mistake a Boyko or Hutsul accent for Polish. We do use Hospod’ in Church services, not Pan.
Fr. Deacon RLB