Leftist Iconoclasm

[YHWH_Christ]

The tearing down and defacing of statues by the left recently reminds me of the heresy of iconoclasm that plagued the Byzantine Empire in the 8th and 9th centuries as well as Protestant iconoclasm in western Europe during the 16th century. Sad! Very sad!

 

[StudentMI]

I don’t think the two can be compared. One is a religious thing, the other is a secular thing.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Tearing down statues to bad men is nothing like tearing down statues to the Virgin Mary.

 

[1ke]

The tearing down and defacing of statues by the left

Hmmm. Well, I’m not on the “left”. But I am a born-and-raise Southerner with lineage that includes a slave-owning plantation owner ancestor and military ancestors qualifying me for daughters of the confederacy (to whom I do not belong).

I am in favor of confederate memorial statues being removed from their places of prominence and placed in museums.

That doesn’t make me an iconoclast. Iconoclasts say, “images are wrong, statues are wrong.”

Those who are in favor of removing Or replacing specific statues are saying, “these specific statues, the people and events they represent, and their place in the public square should be re-evaluated.”

Do we call the many countries who tore down Stalin statues iconoclasts? Do we call those who tore down Saddam Hussein’s statue iconoclasts? As I recall, we cheered those people and the demise of those statues. Do we have an issue with Germany not allowing statues of Hitler? No. Why? Because those people were on the wrong side of history, on the wrong side of good and the wrong side of all that is decent. We don’t honor and laud them or their deeds. No, we honor and laud their victims, and we create memorials in their honor.

What should really be in every public square in the south is a memorial to the slaves who bled and died under the antebellum south, not monuments to their enslavers. Those monuments were put up during the Jim Crow takeover of the South, and their message was, “you may not be my legal property anymore, but don’t go getting the idea that you are free.”

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

For what it’s worth, I don’t support tearing down statues. I think the Confederate statues should be transferred to museums because we should not be commemorating people who waged war against the United States. As a former and soon-to-be resident of Oxford, and an alumna of the university, I am furious that the city council and the incoming master of Oxford’s oldest college are demanding that a statue of Cecil Rhodes be taken down.

However, there is absolutely no connection between theological iconoclasm and taking down statues for political reasons.

 

[puer.dei]

The tearing down and defacing of statues by the left recently reminds me of the heresy of iconoclasm that plagued the Byzantine Empire in the 8th and 9th centuries as well as Protestant iconoclasm in western Europe during the 16th century. Sad! Very sad!

Removing statues that honor men who took up arms against our country is in no way like iconoclasm. And certainly no resemblance to heresy, for crying out loud.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

heresy of iconoclasm that plagued the Byzantine Empire in the 8th and 9th centuries as well as Protestant iconoclasm in western Europe during the 16th century.

This needs a history lesson in brief to compare and contrast with what is going on now.

 

[arvo]

I am from former Soviet Union. We removed lot of Lenin monuments - each town had at least one of them. Though lot of memorabilia remains, but they are more linked with humanity than the man who introduced totally inhumand and criminal regime.

p.s. I beggin you not to mix the Marxian post-capitalism (that necessarily emerges from the technological development) with the crude Leninism-Stalinism. There is incredible difference among these social-economic relationships, although both are trying to bear name “communinsm”. See more about in Economic Systems: Capitalism and Communism - #7 by arvo

 

[PetraG]

Iconoclasm? It isn’t like they’re pulling down George Washington and Thomas Jefferson quite yet. Since when is Jeff Davis an American icon? Isn’t 155 years long enough to get over losing a war that preserved the Union that you inexplicably express a love for?

It is time to decide which side of that conflict you’re on: the side that wanted out of the Union or the side that wanted to keep it together.

So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that Slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interest of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this that I would have cheerfully lost all that I have lost by the war, and have suffered all that I have suffered to have this object attained.
–Robert E Lee

(This was his prediction before the war; he was a very perceptive man: They do not know what they say. If it came to a conflict of arms, the war will last at least four years. Northern politicians will not appreciate the determination and pluck of the South, and Southern politicians do not appreciate the numbers, resources, and patient perseverance of the North. Both sides forget that we are all Americans. I foresee that our country will pass through a terrible ordeal, a necessary expiation, perhaps, for our national sins.)

There is not a reason in the world to preserve monuments to the Confederacy. The South, in her anxiety to preserve the rights of her states, neglected to rise to their most minimal duties towards their fellow men. They lost, and it was good that they lost. The tragedy is that it took as long as it did and did as much harm as it did.

We failed, but in the good providence of God apparent failure often proves a blessing. --Robert E Lee

 

[PetraG]

p.s. I beggin you not to mix the Marxian post-capitalism (that necessarily emerges from the technological development) with the crude Leninism-Stalinism. There is incredible difference among these social-economic relationships, although both are trying to bear name “communinsm”. See more about in Economic Systems: Capitalism and Communism

Economic systems cannot achieve good apart from the conversion of souls. They always go wrong, every single one of them.

For what it’s worth, I don’t support tearing down statues. I think the Confederate statues should be transferred to museums because we should not be commemorating people who waged war against the United States.

I agree that the statues are historically significant and depict historically significant people. The best examples should be preserved, yes. Museums and historical recreation sites are good places for them, lest we forget. They really did believe they were on the side of right; it would be hubris to believe we could not be the same ourselves right now.

 

[Nepperhan]

The tearing down and defacing of statues by the left recently reminds me of the heresy of iconoclasm that plagued the Byzantine Empire in the 8th and 9th centuries as well as Protestant iconoclasm in western Europe during the 16th century. Sad! Very sad!

Some of the icons were established as totems of opposition to civil rights for all Americans. The Confederate battle flag did not appear on the grounds of the SC capitol until 1961. What’s sad about removing such symbols? Times change.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Me too. Some years ago, there was a memorial in Augusta, Georgia (near where I live) of a Confederate chaplain. A Catholic priest that didn’t even fight in the war, and was more well-known as a poet, was vandalised. THAT is absurd. The fact there is no talk and discussion of there is what is frustrating me. This is closer to what the Islamic State did in Iraq, than it is to democracy. You cannot destroy your history. Rome and Egypt still have both pre-Islamic and Pre-Christian monuments, what now, are they going to destroy them because they have a problem with idolatry? Ironically, by tearing down these monuments, which are not usually worshiped as idols, they’ve made an idol of an ideology.

 

[PetraG]

…It isn’t really about racism at all. Some poor sods swept up in this think it is- but they are being used- and many are discovering this to be the case (plenty of videos of black people discovering this sad reality).

At the end it is about communism coming to the west…Their religion will be a fake Christianity…

This is a surprise? Maybe the question ought to be what real problems the “poor sods” are seeing with their own eyes. If the system in place has been making empty promises about justice while actually concentrating on protecting opportunities for those already on the top, is it some wonder that those on the bottom finally look to someone else for answers? The Old Testament prophets had lots to say about situations like the one we’re in.

 

[StudentMI]

If the system in place has been making empty promises about justice while actually concentrating on protecting opportunities for those already on the top, is it some wonder that those on the bottom finally look to someone else for answers?

This is a huge problem in our society and has been for a long time. Look up Daniel Shays.

 

[PetraG]

This is a huge problem in our society and has been for a long time. Look up Daniel Shays.

Isaiah or Ezekiel ought to be sufficient, honestly. That and a mirror.