Length of Catechumenate

[Fidelis]

(No, this isn’t going to be another gripe session about RCIA – I hope! Just a question that came up in a men’s group discussion this morning)

The average length of today’s RCIA catechumenate is about a year. The very early Church averaged about three years!

What do you say to those that say almost any extended length of time is wrong because (apparently) Jesus and the Apostles baptised and took new disciples into the Church immediately? Is it preferable, or even possible, to evaluate each and every person on an individual basis and tailor their catechumenate to them based on a sliding scale of factors? Should exceptionally knowledgable or enthusiastic or holy candidates be allowed to “challenge the test” or be placed on a fast track?

Thanks for any replies in advance. :tiphat:

 

[Rawb]

Before I found out what the Catholic church taught I had a sort of abstract in my mind of what my perfect church would be like. One of the key factors was that it wasn’t an ‘altar call’ church, where you could just start attending services, go up for an altar call or maybe be baptised there and suddenly you’re a member. I didn’t even want one that had just a few classes before baptism. I wanted something that took some time, where the church would teach you what they believed. The things we get quickly are so easily discarded. So I for one am glad that there is quite a bit of preparation before we’re admitted into the church; when I can finally say “I’m a Catholic” and be a full member of The Church it will mean so much more than it would if I said “I’m a _______” after completeing three after-service classes.

 

[marci]

What do you say to those that say almost any

 

[puzzleannie]

(The average length of today’s RCIA catechumenate is about a year. The very early Church averaged about three years!

Should exceptionally knowledgable or enthusiastic or holy candidates be allowed to “challenge the test” or be placed on a fast track?

Thanks for any replies in advance. :tiphat:

apples and oranges
the catechumenate the process of formation, discernment, catechesis and conversion for the unbaptized preparing for the sacraments of initiation.
Candidates are baptized persons seeking full communion with the Catholic Church.

If your question is on the length of the catechumenate, as it seems from your comparison with practice in the early church which involved the unbaptized exclusively, keep the discussion to that. The Rite for the restored RCIA specifies a period of inquiry lasting an indefinite time, and once the individual has been accepted into the catechumate a period of not less than one year, from approx. Lent to Easter of the following year. It may take much longer depending on the individual.

Yes, folks, news flash, the Rites already day into account individual needs. Whether or not one or another parish is able to meet all those individual needs at all times is debatable, but what is not debatable, so I wish we could drop it, is that all those involved in this ministry are doing the best they can, given their education and resources, to meet those needs.

If you are looking for an extended discussion on how well needs of candidates are met, and critique every which way until Tuesday, check out Andrushak’s journey. We’re way ahead of you.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

(No, this isn’t going to be another gripe session about RCIA – I hope! Just a question that came up in a men’s group discussion this morning)

The average length of today’s RCIA catechumenate is about a year. The very early Church averaged about three years!

What do you say to those that say almost any extended length of time is wrong because (apparently) Jesus and the Apostles baptised and took new disciples into the Church immediately? Is it preferable, or even possible, to evaluate each and every person on an individual basis and tailor their catechumenate to them based on a sliding scale of factors? Should exceptionally knowledgable or enthusiastic or holy candidates be allowed to “challenge the test” or be placed on a fast track?

Thanks for any replies in advance. :tiphat:

It says that it should be at least one full liturgical year, but can take longer for some people. I would agree with them anyone who is willing to put their life on the line, and die, give up friends, family and property, because they wanted to become a Christian should be allowed a shortened Catechumenate.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Well if today’s catechumen is better educated, or more knowledgeable or actually literate, then the program should reflect that. On the other hand the church updated in 1962, so we will not be due again for another 50yrs! 21 ecumenical councils in 20 centuries

maci
A couple of years ago we had a fellow in a nearly identical scenario, he told the RCIA director he would attend if they promised never to call on him publicly, as for an answer to a question or giving and opinion, etc. So that is exactly what they did. The RCIA director talked about this for years because he says it was the most sincere catechumen he ever had

 

[love_n_live_RC]

Wow a year,praise the Lord!
In the RCIA course I help out in the course is 6 months, over half of that is spent in people sharing their stories and experiences and then about 9 weeks up to Easter teaching the faith.
Can you please give quotes stating that it should be a year so I can share this with my fellow Catechists.

 

[puzzleannie]

(What do you say to those that say almost any extended length of time is wrong because (apparently) Jesus and the Apostles baptised and took new disciples into the Church immediately?

Jesus gave his apostles and other disciples 3 years of training and formation, in which he demonstrated what their ministry would be, and what the cost of discipleship would be, and what it consists of: service that is completely self-giving to the point of death and community maintained in the face of all threats to disunity and division.

The thousands accepted into the infant church on Pentecost were already believing Jews fully familiar with the One True God and the worship due Him, who received a magnificent teaching on Christ and the meaning of His life, death and resurrection from the Pope himself, Peter. Here by the way is established from the beginning that the formation of catechumens belongs to the bishop.

The Ethiopian baptized by the deacon Philiip was presumably already an observant Jew, or at least very familiar with Jewish ways, as he was a student of scripture. Here we have described the shortest and most to-the-point “Inquiry Period” recorded in Acts. “How am I to understand this scripture unless someone explains it to me?” and Philips response, again an extended teaching on the meaning of OT and about Christ.

As soon as the Church began accepting gentile converts who required more instruction on both scripture and the person of Christ, as well as on the nature of God and beliefs of the Church, catechesis was formalized for them–the Apostles Creed–and indeed many of the writings of the Early Fathers who were also bishops is in the form of teachings for the catechumens. In times of active persecution, the process could be fore-shortened and focused on strengthening the catechumen for persecution and death which could follow his conversion, and for the loss of family, friends, possibly means of livelihood, honors, status and everything else, including his life. This by the way is also the basis of the strengthening aspect of the sacrament of confirmation, so closely linked from the beginning to baptism, and also the perogative of the bishop. That is why the Order of the Catechumens evolved very early, so that through a Rite of Acceptance very similar in ritual to what we have today, so that the catechumens, many of whom were executed before baptism, could be saved and would have Christian burials.

Acts and the Epistles clearly show that baptism was not a slam dunk, that preparation tailored to the needs of the family or population was mandated, and that when the apostles encountered populations of new Christians who had only received the Spirit they were immediately baptized, and those who had only had water baptism were immediately confirmed in the spirit.

 

[puzzleannie]

For example, my husband, after 10 years of marraige, has begun to consider converting. He is sort of a shy guy, not so much one on one, but in front of a crowd he melts. Just tonight we were discussing it and he said he would be willing to do the classes, but he doesn’t want to have to get up in front of the “crowd” and be on display. What am I to do?

 

[Fidelis]

apples and oranges
the catechumenate the process of formation, discernment, catechesis and conversion for the unbaptized preparing for the sacraments of initiation.
Candidates are baptized persons seeking full communion with the Catholic Church.

If your question is on the length of the catechumenate, as it seems from your comparison with practice in the early church which involved the unbaptized exclusively, keep the discussion to that. The Rite for the restored RCIA specifies a period of inquiry lasting an indefinite time, and once the individual has been accepted into the catechumate a period of not less than one year, from approx. Lent to Easter of the following year. It may take much longer depending on the individual.

Yes, folks, news flash, the Rites already day into account individual needs. Whether or not one or another parish is able to meet all those individual needs at all times is debatable, but what is not debatable, so I wish we could drop it, is that all those involved in this ministry are doing the best they can, given their education and resources, to meet those needs.

If you are looking for an extended discussion on how well needs of candidates are met, and critique every which way until Tuesday, check out Andrushak’s journey. We’re way ahead of you.

Peace, Puzzlea! As I said in my first post:

(No, this isn’t going to be another gripe session about RCIA – I hope! Just a question that came up in a men’s group discussion this morning)

Thanks for your second answer, however —that is exactly what I was looking for!

 

[puzzleannie]

Peace, Puzzlea! As I said in my first post:Thanks for your second answer, however —that is exactly what I was looking for!

glad to help, just want to add when you go to the parish to discuss this try to get an appointment with the priest or the person who will actually be overseeing the RCIA process, so you don’t have to rehash your whole story with the secretary, DRE, catechist several times.

 

[valient_Lucy]

(No, this isn’t going to be another gripe session about RCIA – I hope! Just a question that came up in a men’s group discussion this morning)

The average length of today’s RCIA catechumenate is about a year. The very early Church averaged about three years!

What do you say to those that say almost any extended length of time is wrong because (apparently) Jesus and the Apostles baptised and took new disciples into the Church immediately? Is it preferable, or even possible, to evaluate each and every person on an individual basis and tailor their catechumenate to them based on a sliding scale of factors? Should exceptionally knowledgable or enthusiastic or holy candidates be allowed to “challenge the test” or be placed on a fast track?

Thanks for any replies in advance. :tiphat:

I do think that the length of the process should be tailored to fit the candidate, to some extent. Some people are ready to be baptized after one year, others are not. I think that perhaps several interviews before the RCIA process even begins would be helpful, to get to know the candidates, what they know about the faith, why they are becoming Catholic.

“Do you offer any kind of express conversions?”
George Costanza seeking to become Latvian Orthodox.

 

[wjp984]

(No, this isn’t going to be another gripe session about RCIA – I hope! Just a question that came up in a men’s group discussion this morning)

The average length of today’s RCIA catechumenate is about a year. The very early Church averaged about three years!

What do you say to those that say almost any extended length of time is wrong because (apparently) Jesus and the Apostles baptised and took new disciples into the Church immediately? Is it preferable, or even possible, to evaluate each and every person on an individual basis and tailor their catechumenate to them based on a sliding scale of factors? Should exceptionally knowledgable or enthusiastic or holy candidates be allowed to “challenge the test” or be placed on a fast track?

Thanks for any replies in advance. :tiphat:

I would say that in the early days the people who were baptized were ready to learn together with the early apostles as there was more community and small groups involved. The religion was just starting out. Also, back then there truly was one apostolic church and only one Catholic church. There were no protestants.

 

[puzzleannie]

I . I think that perhaps several interviews before the RCIA process even begins would be helpful, to get to know the candidates, what they know about the faith, why they are becoming Catholic.

“Do you offer any kind of express conversions?”
George Costanza seeking to become Latvian Orthodox.

as has beenstated on the several concurrent threads on this topic, such interviews are required for inquirers considering the RCIA process, as is assessment of the needs of the individual and adapting the preparation to meet those needs. OP states this discussion is about catechumens, not candidates, so can we please stick to that range of discussion.

 

[valient_Lucy]

as has beenstated on the several concurrent threads on this topic, such interviews are required for inquirers considering the RCIA process, as is assessment of the needs of the individual and adapting the preparation to meet those needs. OP states this discussion is about catechumens, not candidates, so can we please stick to that range of discussion.

I mistakenly said candidates, when I meant catechumens.

 

[Pug]

What do you say to those that say almost any extended length of time is wrong because (apparently) Jesus and the Apostles baptised and took new disciples into the Church immediately?

Hmmm. This sounds like someone is trying to make a bible-based (only) argument. If that is so, it might help to work on responses that address that type of reasoning, and not the specific issue of baptism.

From my own perspective, if someone is not yet ready to be baptized, then don’t baptize them! We get people in RCIA who are clearly not ready, and don’t feel ready. They want to understand more first. My response is to tell them to take their time and do it at their own pace (the Spirit’s pace). The existence of these people seems as good an answer as any to the idea that baptism must always be immediate.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Hmmm. This sounds like someone is trying to make a bible-based (only) argument. If that is so, it might help to work on responses that address that type of reasoning, and not the specific issue of baptism.

From my own perspective, if someone is not yet ready to be baptized, then don’t baptize them! We get people in RCIA who are clearly not ready, and don’t feel ready. They want to understand more first. My response is to tell them to take their time and do it at their own pace (the Spirit’s pace). The existence of these people seems as good an answer as any to the idea that baptism must always be immediate.

I would not go that far, there are plenty of outside learning resources on Catholism. I always liked “This is Our Faith”, however there dozen or hundreds of alternatives