Less centralized Church

[awsiukiewicz]

Could anyone please share feelings, opiinions and/or any explanation what Pope Francis means by a ‘less centralized Church’ …tks

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Sound like subsidiarity. Let the bishops manage their diocese with less involvement of Rome.

 

[josephback]

The Church of the first millennium? Rome only weighs in when absolutely necessary to settle intractable disputes. The bishop of Rome retains jurisdiction and trump card but lets the local dioceses run more things without a lot of interference.

 

[TimothyH]

The Church of the first millennium? Rome only weighs in when absolutely necessary to settle intractable disputes. The bishop of Rome retains jurisdiction and trump card but lets the local dioceses run more things without a lot of interference.

This is even more true in the very early Church where persecutions were ongoing.

The Church could not operate publically, couldn’t set up offices and hold meetings. Even carrying messages back and forth between diocese was a great risk. The Church necessarily had a wider and more shallow hierarchy. Deacons played a large part in governance of the Church during these times.

 

[gus]

Who says the Church is centralized now.
I live on near the border of Two dioceses. The difference are amazing.
Bishops wield tremendous power already. One might say too much power for their own good with little oversite possible.
The Vatican consists of about 500 people. Many employed by the Museum and Swiss Guard
How can they possibly govern. It’s not an executive branch.
The Pope has one job ,it’s to preserve the deposit of faith that’s been entrusted to him.

 

[Usige]

The Church of the first millennium? Rome only weighs in when absolutely necessary to settle intractable disputes. The bishop of Rome retains jurisdiction and trump card but lets the local dioceses run more things without a lot of interference.

Just curious, do you really see Rome interfering in the local Churches? If so what specifically do you see as interference?

 

[JimG]

Who says the Church is centralized now.
I live on near the border of Two dioceses. The difference are amazing.
Bishops wield tremendous power already. One might say too much power for their own good with little oversite possible.
The Vatican consists of about 500 people. Many employed by the Museum and Swiss Guard
How can they possibly govern. It’s not an executive branch.
The Pope has one job ,it’s to preserve the deposit of faith that’s been entrusted to him.

I agree with this. The Church is not much centralized now. Most dioceses, even most parishes, operate pretty much on their own. The bishop is responsible for the dioceses, but how often do most of us see our bishop? The bishop makes an ad limina trip to Rome, I think, once every five years. How often does a local bishop get a call from the Pope?

The Catholic Church is far less centralized than the most laid back of federal government agencies. I worked at a government agency and we heard from the bosses in DC every day! The Church is one of the least centralized organizations in my experience.

 

[sirach2v4]

I think this comment reflects Pope Francis’ attitude towards reducing the careerism in the curia and reducing the curial bureaucracy.

I think the danger is the obvious, churches becoming too nationalized, which is a problem in some parts of the world.

The very division between East and West was somewhat the result of the ignorance of each other’s languages and the poor communication between them, in the early Church.

 

[Brendan_64]

I think that there are some within our Church calling for more ‘decentralisation’ in order to enable a more ‘liberal’ approach to doctrine in their own countries. The decentralisation is just a means to an end in such cases, I think.

 

[josephback]

Just curious, do you really see Rome interfering in the local Churches? If so what specifically do you see as interference?

I guess I can’t think of a specific example but Rome could delegate more authority to local patriarchs. I don’t see extreme centralization as good or necessary. The Pope is head and rock with a teaching office that implies real jurisdiction, but overarching authority issues are partly responsible for the Reformation and Great Schism. Managing the house and thundering orders are not the same. It’s a matter of style of management, not the office.

 

[Brendan_64]

he Pope is head and rock with a teaching office that implies real jurisdiction, but overarching authority issues are partly responsible for the Reformation

Heresy was responsible for the Reformation.

As has been said earlier, how exactly is the Church overly centralised? From an administrative position, diocese manage themselves.

We are one Universal Church, not a coalition of amalgamated ‘National’ Churches deciding our own teachings, but that is, I fear, where some who call for more ‘decentralisation’ want to us to head towards.

It is very easy to support ‘decentralisation’ as a principle, because it sounds good, it sounds like the right thing, but without actually identifying what specifically it is that ought to be decentralised then it is pointless. It is a bit like when people support ‘more democracy’ within the Church, but can’t actually identify what it is specifically within the Church that they want more ‘democracy’ on. Or another one is ‘de-clericalisation’, what specifically do people want when they support this (less priests?).