Let us talk about the Patriarch of Antioch

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I just want to recollect some of the points I found from different sources about the bishop of Antioch and its importance. Since its seat is concentrated in the middle east, I jus twant to know whether it is possible for a rebuilding of Christianity there.
I found that during Ottoman rule, there were a large number of chrisitans in middle east. My question to church scholars is, is there any possibility to make middle east again a land like european christianity and culture? Or in the future chrisitianity will be wiped out from middle east?
 
I just want to recollect some of the points I found from different sources about the bishop of Antioch and its importance. Since its seat is concentrated in the middle east, I jus twant to know whether it is possible for a rebuilding of Christianity there.
I found that during Ottoman rule, there were a large number of chrisitans in middle east. My question to church scholars is, is there any possibility to make middle east again a land like european christianity and culture? Or in the future chrisitianity will be wiped out from middle east?
Lebanon was a good example of European culture in the mideast.
 
Maybe, Islam is the majority there but many people are secular Muslims so it might be easier to spread Christianity there.
 
On Thursday, September 11, the spiritual leaders of the Middle Eastern Maronite, Armenian, Syrian Orthodox, Greek Catholic, and Syrian Catholic churches who had gathered for a Christian conference in Washington, DC, held an hour long meeting with President Barack Obama. National Security Advisor Susan Rice and other key White House staff also attended the meeting.

Each of the Patriarchs briefly shared their concerns, primarily focusing on the plight of Christian communities in Iraq. .

President Obama, in turn, broadly outlined the key points of his address to the nation, stressing that freedom of conscience and the defense of human rights remain top priorities in U.S. foreign policy.

Present at the meeting were
His Beatitude, Gregorius III Laham Melkite, Greek Catholic Patriarch of Antioch

His Beatitude, Mor Ignatius Aphrem II Syriac Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch;

His Beatitude, Ignatius Youssef III Yonan Syriac Catholic Patriarch of Antioch

Official representative of His Beatitude Greek Orthodox Patriarch John X of Antioch and all the East),
Official representative of His Holiness Pope Tawadros II, the 118th Pope of Alexandria Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria);
Official representative of His Beatitude Louis Rahphael Sako I, Chaldean Catholic Patriarch of Babylon and the Head of the Chaldean Catholic Church.

 
I think it was good of them to see the president and talk of their concerns about Christians living in the Middle East. The Christian culture should be I think be Eastern as the area is not European in the sense that the two are different. Religious wise it should be one, but till reunion with the Orthodox, there will be some continuing tension between Orthodox and European Catholic’s as well as the Muslem population.
 
These are the same leaders who were disrespected by Ted Cruz and his antics just the night before.


From Left to Right:
  1. General Bishop of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria and Representative of His Holiness Pope Tawadros II - His Grace Bishop Angaelos
  2. Catholicos of the Holy See of Cilicia His Holiness Aram I Keshishian
  3. Syriac Orthodox Patriarch Moran Mor Ignatius Aphrem II
  4. Maronite Patriarch Moran Mor Bechara Boutros Cardinal Raï
  5. Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch His Beatitude Gregorius III Laham
  6. Syriac Catholic Patriarch Moran Mor Ignatius Youssef III Yonan
  7. Official representative of Greek Orthodox Patriarch His Beatitude John X - Most Reverend Metropolitan Joseph Al-Zehlaoui
  8. Bishop Emeritus of Chaldean Eparchy of Saint Thomas the Apostle His Grace Mar Ibrahim Ibrahim
 
Maronite Patriarch Cardinal Bechara Raï, who was scheduled to speak during the same keynote slot as Cruz on Wednesday evening, has called** Israel an “enemy state that is occupying Lebanese territory”** and defended Hezbollah’s right to attack the Jewish state.

“Everyone says why is Hezbollah carrying arms?” said Rai in a 2011 interview with Al-Arabiya. “We responded that the international community did not exert pressure on Israel to withdraw from Lebanese territory. As long as there is an occupied Lebanese territory, Hezbollah will maintain that it wants to carry arms in defense of its land. What will we say to it then? Isn’t [Hezbollah] right?”

The Maronite leader said earlier this month that he would welcome a meeting with Hezbollah terror chief Hassan Nasrallah to discuss the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS) threat against Christians.

“A dialogue committee already exists between [the Lebanon Maronite Church] and Hezbollah, and we are ready to hold any meeting in this respect,” said Rai.

Others at the summit have also aligned themselves with the Iranian-backed terrorist group.** Syriac Orthodox Church Patriarch Moran Mor Ignatius Aphrem II posted photos from his meeting with a “high level delegation from Hezbollah” on his official Facebook page last week.**

Participants included Al-Sayyed Ibrahim Amin Al-Sayed, president of the Political Council in Hezbollah, and Ghaleb Abou Zeynad, the terror group’s Christian relations attaché. The group discussed the threats facing Christians the need for international intervention to combat ISIL, according to the Syriac Orthodox Church website.

Another conference speaker, Antioch Church patriarch Gregory III Laham has claimed a “Zionist conspiracy against Islam” is responsible for al Qaeda attacks on Iraqi Christians.

“It is actually a conspiracy planned by Zionism and some Christians with Zionist orientations, and it aims at undermining and giving a bad image of Islam,” Laham said
in 2010, according to the Daily Star.

The Syrian patriarch has been the subject of controversy inside the Catholic Church. In a published message welcoming Pope Benedict XVI to Lebanon in 2012, he called on the Holy See to recognize the State of Palestine, causing what the Vatican Insider described as “a great embarrassment to Rome.” In 2013, a prominent French bishop accused Laham of being “an ally politically and financially” of Bashar al-Assad.

Other summit speakers, including Antioch Church leader John X (Yazigi) and Syriac Catholic Patriarch Ignatius Joseph III Younan, have been consistent defenders of the Assad regime.

**Younan said last May that Western nations were responsible for the instability in Syria, **adding that the notion that the United States was promoting democracy “is a lie, this is hypocrisy.”

“Since the beginning, [Western nations] just stood against the regime, calling it a dictatorship, saying the dictatorship must fall,” said Younan. “Now it’s over 25 months, the conflict is getting worse, and the ones who are paying the price are the innocent people.”


A spokesperson for Cruz said the senator will still speak at the conference despite the controversial participants because he is committed to raising awareness about the persecution of Middle East Christians.

“Sen. Cruz is appearing at the In Defense of Christians event tonight because he wants to take every opportunity to highlight this crisis, the unspeakable persecution of Christians,” said Catherine Frazier. “America has been silent for far too long, and we need to speak with a united voice against this horror. Sen. Cruz is speaking to make the unequivocal point that religious bigotry in all its forms–be it targeting Christians, Jews, or minority Muslim sects–is an evil that must be exposed and combatted.”

Lebanese Information Center president Joseph Gebeily, a Lebanese Christian who staunchly opposes Assad, said he was “shocked” by many of the invited speakers, but decided to attend the conference after he learned members of Congress would be present.

“I decided we should be present and not let the bad representatives of Middle East Christians hijack the true message of Christianity, which is basically democracy, tolerance, co-existence, inclusiveness,” said Gebeily.

“It wasn’t a very quick and easy decision, but since we were given this opportunity, I said let’s go and see and face those advocates of tyranny and crimes against humanity.”
 
These are the same leaders who were disrespected by Ted Cruz and his antics just the night before.
I was going to ask how he did this and then looked it up.

Yep, anyone who meets with Palestinian Christian leaders and brings up Israel clearly doesn’t understand anything about Palestinian Christians. Worse he accused them of antisemitism later.
 
Quoting the subhed:
Anti-Israel Crowd Like Nothing ‘I’ve Previously Encountered’
Perhaps this is because Cruz has never encountered Christians who actually live in the Middle East. Yes the Muslim states have a horrific record for their treatment of Christians but in spite of what Cruz seems to think Israel is not an ally.

The reason this was “considerably different” than other reactions he’s experienced, I’ll wager, is because in the past he has been dealing with left wing ‘Christians’ who know as much about the reality as he does.
 
Maronite Patriarch Cardinal Bechara Raï, who was scheduled to speak during the same keynote slot as Cruz on Wednesday evening, has called** Israel an “enemy state that is occupying Lebanese territory”** and defended Hezbollah’s right to attack the Jewish state.

“Everyone says why is Hezbollah carrying arms?” said Rai in a 2011 interview with Al-Arabiya. “We responded that the international community did not exert pressure on Israel to withdraw from Lebanese territory. As long as there is an occupied Lebanese territory, Hezbollah will maintain that it wants to carry arms in defense of its land. What will we say to it then? Isn’t [Hezbollah] right?”

The Maronite leader said earlier this month that he would welcome a meeting with Hezbollah terror chief Hassan Nasrallah to discuss the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS) threat against Christians.

“A dialogue committee already exists between [the Lebanon Maronite Church] and Hezbollah, and we are ready to hold any meeting in this respect,” said Rai.

Others at the summit have also aligned themselves with the Iranian-backed terrorist group.** Syriac Orthodox Church Patriarch Moran Mor Ignatius Aphrem II posted photos from his meeting with a “high level delegation from Hezbollah” on his official Facebook page last week.**

Participants included Al-Sayyed Ibrahim Amin Al-Sayed, president of the Political Council in Hezbollah, and Ghaleb Abou Zeynad, the terror group’s Christian relations attaché. The group discussed the threats facing Christians the need for international intervention to combat ISIL, according to the Syriac Orthodox Church website.

Another conference speaker, Antioch Church patriarch Gregory III Laham has claimed a “Zionist conspiracy against Islam” is responsible for al Qaeda attacks on Iraqi Christians.

“It is actually a conspiracy planned by Zionism and some Christians with Zionist orientations, and it aims at undermining and giving a bad image of Islam,” Laham said
in 2010, according to the Daily Star.

The Syrian patriarch has been the subject of controversy inside the Catholic Church. In a published message welcoming Pope Benedict XVI to Lebanon in 2012, he called on the Holy See to recognize the State of Palestine, causing what the Vatican Insider described as “a great embarrassment to Rome.” In 2013, a prominent French bishop accused Laham of being “an ally politically and financially” of Bashar al-Assad.

Other summit speakers, including Antioch Church leader John X (Yazigi) and Syriac Catholic Patriarch Ignatius Joseph III Younan, have been consistent defenders of the Assad regime.

**Younan said last May that Western nations were responsible for the instability in Syria, **adding that the notion that the United States was promoting democracy “is a lie, this is hypocrisy.”

“Since the beginning, [Western nations] just stood against the regime, calling it a dictatorship, saying the dictatorship must fall,” said Younan. “Now it’s over 25 months, the conflict is getting worse, and the ones who are paying the price are the innocent people.”


A spokesperson for Cruz said the senator will still speak at the conference despite the controversial participants because he is committed to raising awareness about the persecution of Middle East Christians.

“Sen. Cruz is appearing at the In Defense of Christians event tonight because he wants to take every opportunity to highlight this crisis, the unspeakable persecution of Christians,” said Catherine Frazier. “America has been silent for far too long, and we need to speak with a united voice against this horror. Sen. Cruz is speaking to make the unequivocal point that religious bigotry in all its forms–be it targeting Christians, Jews, or minority Muslim sects–is an evil that must be exposed and combatted.”

Lebanese Information Center president Joseph Gebeily, a Lebanese Christian who staunchly opposes Assad, said he was “shocked” by many of the invited speakers, but decided to attend the conference after he learned members of Congress would be present.

“I decided we should be present and not let the bad representatives of Middle East Christians hijack the true message of Christianity, which is basically democracy, tolerance, co-existence, inclusiveness,” said Gebeily.

“It wasn’t a very quick and easy decision, but since we were given this opportunity, I said let’s go and see and face those advocates of tyranny and crimes against humanity.”
This is written with a heavy slant toward right wing propaganda… sure these Christian leaders met with Hezbollah leaders, but Hezbollah is not simply a terrorist organization as often claimed in simple statements by the US and Europe, they have a political wing which is heavily involved in Lebanon. It would be like accusing Christian pastors of meeting with Tea Party terrorists because of the survivalist Tea Partier who shot the sheriff deputy last week, and accusing the entire Tea Party of terrorism.
 
This is written with a heavy slant toward right wing propaganda… sure these Christian leaders met with Hezbollah leaders, but Hezbollah is not simply a terrorist organization as often claimed in simple statements by the US and Europe, they have a political wing which is heavily involved in Lebanon. It would be like accusing Christian pastors of meeting with Tea Party terrorists because of the survivalist Tea Partier who shot the sheriff deputy last week, and accusing the entire Tea Party of terrorism.
So you are comparing one crazy guy with a gun who shot one person one time to a group that has spent decades intentionally launching tens of thousands of rockets at Israeli civilians?
 
So you are comparing one crazy guy with a gun who shot one person one time to a group that has spent decades intentionally launching tens of thousands of rockets at Israeli civilians?
Politics in the MidEast makes strange bedfellows. Of course I’m not equating them, but most Americans are not aware of the complexities of Western European politics, let alone Eastern Europe, MidEast, Southeast Asia, or Far East.

As to Israeli “civilians”, I don’t advocate anyone anywhere launching missiles like Hezbollah or Hamas, nor the retaliation of a grand scale as Israel has launched. But, aren’t 99% of Israeli civilians supposed to join the IDF? How can they be realistically called “civilians” then? Perhaps Reserve Forces?

Perhaps a better example would be of Ireland’s IRA, how many American politicians were friendly with IRA leaders throughout various decades, despite the claims of the UK that these were all terrorists?
Or how many American Christian clergy are friendly with pro-abortion Republicans and Democrats throughout the decades, despite abortionists being responsible for the deaths of millions of unborn?
 
As to Israeli “civilians”, I don’t advocate anyone anywhere launching missiles like Hezbollah or Hamas, nor the retaliation of a grand scale as Israel has launched. But, aren’t 99% of Israeli civilians supposed to join the IDF? How can they be realistically called “civilians” then? Perhaps Reserve Forces?
Well following that logic you could make the same case that any Palestinian is a potential terrorist and that Israel is perfectly within it’s rights to target all of them. No one would make that argument. In fact when Israel inadvertently kills civilians, even after warning them via phone call, text, leaflets and even a dummy bomb, they are decried at the greatest war criminals in the history of the world.

If the person is not uniformed, not armed and not engaging in combat they are civilians. Following your logic to the extreme any nation engaged in a war could be perfectly justified in using nuclear weapons and killing every single inhabitant of a country because any of them at some point could potentially take up arms.
Perhaps a better example would be of Ireland’s IRA, how many American politicians were friendly with IRA leaders throughout various decades, despite the claims of the UK that these were all terrorists?
Or how many American Christian clergy are friendly with pro-abortion Republicans and Democrats throughout the decades, despite abortionists being responsible for the deaths of millions of unborn?
I get ya. I think the incident with Ted Cruz was definitely a case of him not having a clue about some of the struggles of Christians in the Middle East. I will say in my opinion that American Protestants in general tend to be very ignorant on the subject. I will also say that although Ted Cruz was very insensitive it was also way out of line for those at the conference to boo him.
 
So Ted Cruz speaking of the secular U.S. being allied with Israel as it historically has been, is castigated for pointing this out. I also question your supposition that Baptists and Protestants don’t consider Catholics, Latin or otherwise as Christians.There is a reason that Yassir Arafat when offered their own territory and peace, flatly refused. It isn’t about a homeland for anyone, it is about the Jihad and the elimination of all non-believers in Mohammed from the face of the earth. Check out what ISIL, Al Queda and Hammas have to say about the subject themselves. There oratory and writings make it clear they intend to bring Sharia to the whole world and will kill any opposed. That is the reality.
 
Sorry, but that is just the facts of life here in texas. I am surrounded by texas Baptists and other fundamentalists who do not consider Catholics Christians unless they “git saved” and leave the church. Come to west texas and see for yourself, if you can’t believe me.

Otherwise I agree with you %100 about Israel and Isis.
 
What happened to this thread? It went from 2 pages to 3 posts. I was wondering why my post count dropped and then I went back to what is left of this thread and found out??
 
What happened to this thread? It went from 2 pages to 3 posts. I was wondering why my post count dropped and then I went back to what is left of this thread and found out??
Hi andrewstx: I was wondering the same thing. I do not know what happened or why the thread went from2 pages to for me 4 posts? Maybe some of the posts did not or were not on topic?
 
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