Letter concerning the dress of young women at my university

[Latinitas]

Hi everyone,

Well, I’m back at college for my sophomore year, and I was really struck today at the immodesty with which the women dressed (this is supposed to be a devout Catholic college, which it is many ways). I’m not normally the one to nitpick at the way people dress, but the short-shorts and the tight clothing are a real problem. I myself don’t have a problem with masturbating, pornography etc. (thank God, not me). After talking to a counselor on campus who shared my concerns (a woman, by the way), I decided to write a letter, and I wanted to see what the people here thought. I’ve redacted my name as well as that of the university for privacy.

Here is the letter:

[Univesity Address]

Dear [The Unversity]

As a student at your university, I can say that I am more than pleased with the university, because so many aspects of the university excelled my expectations. The most important aspect of the school, to me, at least, is its Catholic identity. [The university] prides itself (rightly) on being a very devout university, which faithfully holds and teaches the Magisterium of the Catholic Church without compromise, and, in point of fact, is among the best at doing so.
It is for this reason, however, that I would a like offer a suggestion of concern of mine related to the University’s Catholic identity. I admire the fact that the university does not seek to oppress students and in doing so, eliminate all talent and individuality; nevertheless, this past year (2013-2014), I was struck by the lack of modesty on the part of many of the female students. God be praised, I have, through all of the temptations of life, by the grace of God, done my best with great success, to remain chaste. Nevertheless, my heart extends to all those young men who really do struggle with chastity, and for whom, the immodest dress of a young woman is a severe temptation. I firmly recognize that this is not the fault of the university, but on the part of the young women who wear such clothing. I further recognize that, alas, many men do not care at all about purity, and are content to lust after women with no remorse of conscience. Again, such is not the fault of [the unversity], but of those men who lust. I do however, on account of those men need the help, wish to recommend that the university adopt a reasonable dress code for students – at least to class as well as Mass. I understand that there are swimming pools and other leisurely activities on campus in which one can dress casually, and in this there is no sin. However, very revealing and/or tight clothing cannot be modest. Our Lord warns them who tempt others to sin very sternly (Cf. Matt. 18:6, Mk. 9:42, Lk. 17:2). The Blessed Virgin in her apparition at Fatima warned that many fashions will be introduced that will offend Jesus Christ very much. It is thus in keeping with the Faith that women (and men) should dress decently, especially around those of the opposite sex.
I want emphasize again, that I do not in any way blame the university of the vices of the students who attend, and I offer this suggestion only in such a way as to help the already very Catholic spirit on campus flourish. By requiring modesty from students, [the unviersity] will do what is for the greater glory of God, and for the salvation of men.

In the peace of Christ,
[Latinitas]

I sincerely appreciate any comments and criticisms, if they’re not disparaging.

Thanks,
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Your letter makes it sound like you’re blaming the women for men’s issues with lust, which is the equivalent to rape blaming a rape victim.

Furthermore, universities and colleges are businesses. They care about enrollment numbers, not virtue (unless you go to some school such as Christendom College). Furthermore, they don’t care about one student. Does your school have something like a Students’ Union or Students’ Association? If it does, that is the best place to start since they act on your behalf when dealing with Administration. It helps if you have like-minded people with you.

Trying to create change in a university or college is hard. I pulled it off once in having a required Women’s Studies course re-written since it was blantly pro-abortion and pro-contraception by meeting with the Program Chair and discrediting the course material and pointing out that it also discredited the program and the school. That is what got their attention and made them re-write the course.

 

[Catholic1954]

I think you are going to have to learn to live with what you consider is inappropriate or immodest dress in the young ladies of this world. Sooner or later you will join the real world of the work force and face the same issue, a letter of complaint to your employer will not go over well with your female co-workers.

 

[Latinitas]

Your letter makes it sound like you’re blaming the women for men’s issues with lust, which is the equivalent to rape blaming a rape victim.

Furthermore, universities and colleges are businesses. They care about enrollment numbers, not virtue (unless you go to some school such as Christendom College). Furthermore, they don’t care about one student. Does your school have something like a Students’ Union or Students’ Association? If it does, that is the best place to start since they act on your behalf when dealing with Administration. It helps if you have like-minded people with you.

Trying to create change in a university or college is hard. I pulled it off once in having a required Women’s Studies course re-written since it was blantly pro-abortion and pro-contraception by meeting with the Program Chair and discrediting the course material and pointing out that it also discredited the program and the school. That is what got their attention and made them re-write the course.

In a certain sense, I am blaming the women, not really for men’s lack of chastity, but for tempting them to lust after them. This is a college like Christedom College, so it is somewhat relavent.

Anyway, thank you for the insight,
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[on_the_hill]

Comes across as preachy, self-righteous, and self-congratulatory.

College is just as much about learning to cope with the world as it is about academics.

 

[Memaw]

Hi everyone,

Well, I’m back at college for my sophomore year, and I was really struck today at the immodesty with which the women dressed (this is supposed to be a devout Catholic college, which it is many ways). I’m not normally the one to nitpick at the way people dress, but the short-shorts and the tight clothing are a real problem. I myself don’t have a problem with masturbating, pornography etc. (thank God, not me). After talking to a counselor on campus who shared my concerns (a woman, by the way), I decided to write a letter, and I wanted to see what the people here thought. I’ve redacted my name as well as that of the university for privacy.

Here is the letter:

[Univesity Address]

Dear [The Unversity]

As a student at your university, I can say that I am more than pleased with the university, because so many aspects of the university excelled my expectations. The most important aspect of the school, to me, at least, is its Catholic identity. [The university] prides itself (rightly) on being a very devout university, which faithfully holds and teaches the Magisterium of the Catholic Church without compromise, and, in point of fact, is among the best at doing so.
It is for this reason, however, that I would a like offer a suggestion of concern of mine related to the University’s Catholic identity. I admire the fact that the university does not seek to oppress students and in doing so, eliminate all talent and individuality; nevertheless, this past year (2013-2014), I was struck by the lack of modesty on the part of many of the female students. God be praised, I have, through all of the temptations of life, by the grace of God, done my best with great success, to remain chaste. Nevertheless, my heart extends to all those young men who really do struggle with chastity, and for whom, the immodest dress of a young woman is a severe temptation. I firmly recognize that this is not the fault of the university, but on the part of the young women who wear such clothing. I further recognize that, alas, many men do not care at all about purity, and are content to lust after women with no remorse of conscience. Again, such is not the fault of [the unversity], but of those men who lust. I do however, on account of those men need the help, wish to recommend that the university adopt a reasonable dress code for students – at least to class as well as Mass. I understand that there are swimming pools and other leisurely activities on campus in which one can dress casually, and in this there is no sin. However, very revealing and/or tight clothing cannot be modest. Our Lord warns them who tempt others to sin very sternly (Cf. Matt. 18:6, Mk. 9:42, Lk. 17:2). The Blessed Virgin in her apparition at Fatima warned that many fashions will be introduced that will offend Jesus Christ very much. It is thus in keeping with the Faith that women (and men) should dress decently, especially around those of the opposite sex.
I want emphasize again, that I do not in any way blame the university of the vices of the students who attend, and I offer this suggestion only in such a way as to help the already very Catholic spirit on campus flourish. By requiring modesty from students, [the unviersity] will do what is for the greater glory of God, and for the salvation of men.

In the peace of Christ,
[Latinitas]

I sincerely appreciate any comments and criticisms, if they’re not disparaging.

Thanks,
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

I agree with you but you may be fighting a loosing battle if your hoping to get much support here! But just remember, the Church supports you. It would be interesting to hear how the University responds !!God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

Comes across as preachy, self-righteous, and self-congratulatory.

College is just as much about learning to cope with the world as it is about academics.

We are supposed to be in the world not of the world. Catholic University’s should stand up for Catholic teaching. God Bless, Memaw

 

[redbetta]

I read your letter several times, and, it does come off as preachy. That is not to say that nothing can come from this. Just some suggestions as to what I would do. I would eliminate the part about yourself being chaste and about how so many young men just do not care, because those parts can easily turn people off. Just say that, you have noticed the immodesty on campus and that it can pose a problem to young men and that a Catholic university should have higher standards.

To give your letter a bit more weight, I would go find some fellow students who share your concerns, both male and female. Getting female students on board is especially important because it is hard for women to empathize with men when it comes to modesty and this letter would be more easily dismissed if only males voiced their concerns, particularly if whoever reads this letter is a woman. If you say that you are speaking on behalf of fellow students, than the reader would be more likely to believe that this is a serious problem than if one person brought it up. Maybe, include somethings that they say or a generalization of some of their thoughts and concerns.

And, I do not think you should include the part about Fatima. It is not Revelation required to be believed by all Catholics and the Scripture passage would carry more weight.

Those are just my suggestions. Thank you for trying to bring about a change on your campus.

 

[captainrick]

Comes across as preachy, self-righteous, and self-congratulatory.

College is just as much about learning to cope with the world as it is about academics.

Great answer! Anyone believing a woman is at “fault” for wearing tight clothing will certainly have an interesting life. I worked at a seminary college in the 1970’s - you should have seen the styles back then!

 

[Allegra]

Your letter makes it sound like you’re blaming the women for men’s issues with lust, which is the equivalent to rape blaming a rape victim.

I don’t think that is the same thing at all. A person has complete ability to control whether or not he physically violates another person. He doesn’t always have the ability to control if he becomes aroused or distracted by provocative dress. It’s true that one can’t control the whole world and one has to learn to deal with the fact that some women like to draw attention to themselves in this unfortunate way. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with a college requiring a dress code that elimintes this distraction in order to create a comfortable learning enviroment for the vast majority of students. (Female students often don’t appreciate the show any more than males who are trying to remain chaste.) Furthermore, I’m a female and I find it intellectually dishonest when other females try to suggest that they are dressed provocatively without the intention of garnering the attention of males.

 

[Allegra]

Hi everyone,

Well, I’m back at college for my sophomore year, and I was really struck today at the immodesty with which the women dressed (this is supposed to be a devout Catholic college, which it is many ways). I’m not normally the one to nitpick at the way people dress, but the short-shorts and the tight clothing are a real problem. I myself don’t have a problem with masturbating, pornography etc. (thank God, not me). After talking to a counselor on campus who shared my concerns (a woman, by the way), I decided to write a letter, and I wanted to see what the people here thought. I’ve redacted my name as well as that of the university for privacy.

Here is the letter:

[Univesity Address]

Dear [The Unversity]

As a student at your university, I can say that I am more than pleased with the university, because so many aspects of the university excelled my expectations. The most important aspect of the school, to me, at least, is its Catholic identity. [The university] prides itself (rightly) on being a very devout university, which faithfully holds and teaches the Magisterium of the Catholic Church without compromise, and, in point of fact, is among the best at doing so.
It is for this reason, however, that I would a like offer a suggestion of concern of mine related to the University’s Catholic identity. I admire the fact that the university does not seek to oppress students and in doing so, eliminate all talent and individuality; nevertheless, this past year (2013-2014), I was struck by the lack of modesty on the part of many of the female students. God be praised, I have, through all of the temptations of life, by the grace of God, done my best with great success, to remain chaste. Nevertheless, my heart extends to all those young men who really do struggle with chastity, and for whom, the immodest dress of a young woman is a severe temptation. I firmly recognize that this is not the fault of the university, but on the part of the young women who wear such clothing. I further recognize that, alas, many men do not care at all about purity, and are content to lust after women with no remorse of conscience. Again, such is not the fault of [the unversity], but of those men who lust. I do however, on account of those men need the help, wish to recommend that the university adopt a reasonable dress code for students – at least to class as well as Mass. I understand that there are swimming pools and other leisurely activities on campus in which one can dress casually, and in this there is no sin. However, very revealing and/or tight clothing cannot be modest. Our Lord warns them who tempt others to sin very sternly (Cf. Matt. 18:6, Mk. 9:42, Lk. 17:2). The Blessed Virgin in her apparition at Fatima warned that many fashions will be introduced that will offend Jesus Christ very much. It is thus in keeping with the Faith that women (and men) should dress decently, especially around those of the opposite sex.
I want emphasize again, that I do not in any way blame the university of the vices of the students who attend, and I offer this suggestion only in such a way as to help the already very Catholic spirit on campus flourish. By requiring modesty from students, [the unviersity] will do what is for the greater glory of God, and for the salvation of men.

In the peace of Christ,
[Latinitas]

I sincerely appreciate any comments and criticisms, if they’re not disparaging.

Thanks,
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

I recommend suggesting modest dress for all students, not just females.

 

[LightBound]

I recommend suggesting modest dress for all students, not just females.

I agree with suggesting it include all students. There are likely some young men, even at this Catholic university, that struggle with same-sex attraction, and being men, they are apparently more visual, so young men need to be as cautious with wearing clothes that accent or show off muscles and buttocks as the young ladies he mentioned wearing short shorts and tight clothing. Lust isn’t reserved for men looking at women.

 

[GEddie]

Comes across as preachy, self-righteous, and self-congratulatory.

College is just as much about learning to cope with the world as it is about academics.

Avoiding sin is not about trying to cover others’ skin. IMNAAHO!!

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Emily2014]

Respectfully feel that you should be focussing on your studies and the wonderful range of facilities available to you - sports, clubs, societies for every conceivable subject etc etc. This is your opportunity to enrich your life to maximum effect. Once you have left University, it’s unlikely that there will be time to do things like this. Please consider how fortunate you are and make the most of every minute. It’s surely totally irrelevant how people choose to dress. It’s their time to be young and experiment with fashion etc. Please try to enjoy your life and let other students enjoy theirs.
God bless you

 

[Auntie_A]

I recommend suggesting modest dress for all students, not just females.

Yes! One more vote here for equality in your approach. Men’s dress can be just as distracting to women. And most women don’t take off their shirts to play basketball. This is an important area to discuss with both sexes or you will look like a misogynist.

However, I do know many young women that are trying to dress more modestly. For a while it was difficult to find modest clothing to buy. Perhaps a modest clothing fashion show for college men and women- use it to raise money for increased security on campus and you might influence greatly. Just avoid the presumption of women’s dressing to incite lust or the “she was asking for it” approach to sexual assault.

Maybe start a men’s support group for chastity AND chivalry to all women.

 

[QuestLove]

Hi everyone,

Well, I’m back at college for my sophomore year, and I was really struck today at the immodesty with which the women dressed (this is supposed to be a devout Catholic college, which it is many ways). I’m not normally the one to nitpick at the way people dress, but the short-shorts and the tight clothing are a real problem. I myself don’t have a problem with masturbating, pornography etc. (thank God, not me). After talking to a counselor on campus who shared my concerns (a woman, by the way), I decided to write a letter, and I wanted to see what the people here thought. I’ve redacted my name as well as that of the university for privacy.

Here is the letter:

[Univesity Address]

Dear [The Unversity]

As a student at your university, I can say that I am more than pleased with the university, because so many aspects of the university excelled my expectations. The most important aspect of the school, to me, at least, is its Catholic identity. [The university] prides itself (rightly) on being a very devout university, which faithfully holds and teaches the Magisterium of the Catholic Church without compromise, and, in point of fact, is among the best at doing so.
It is for this reason, however, that I would a like offer a suggestion of concern of mine related to the University’s Catholic identity. I admire the fact that the university does not seek to oppress students and in doing so, eliminate all talent and individuality; nevertheless, this past year (2013-2014), I was struck by the lack of modesty on the part of many of the female students. God be praised, I have, through all of the temptations of life, by the grace of God, done my best with great success, to remain chaste. Nevertheless, my heart extends to all those young men who really do struggle with chastity, and for whom, the immodest dress of a young woman is a severe temptation. I firmly recognize that this is not the fault of the university, but on the part of the young women who wear such clothing. I further recognize that, alas, many men do not care at all about purity, and are content to lust after women with no remorse of conscience. Again, such is not the fault of [the unversity], but of those men who lust. I do however, on account of those men need the help, wish to recommend that the university adopt a reasonable dress code for students – at least to class as well as Mass. I understand that there are swimming pools and other leisurely activities on campus in which one can dress casually, and in this there is no sin. However, very revealing and/or tight clothing cannot be modest. Our Lord warns them who tempt others to sin very sternly (Cf. Matt. 18:6, Mk. 9:42, Lk. 17:2). The Blessed Virgin in her apparition at Fatima warned that many fashions will be introduced that will offend Jesus Christ very much. It is thus in keeping with the Faith that women (and men) should dress decently, especially around those of the opposite sex.
I want emphasize again, that I do not in any way blame the university of the vices of the students who attend, and I offer this suggestion only in such a way as to help the already very Catholic spirit on campus flourish. By requiring modesty from students, [the unviersity] will do what is for the greater glory of God, and for the salvation of men.

In the peace of Christ,
[Latinitas]

I sincerely appreciate any comments and criticisms, if they’re not disparaging.

Thanks,
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

Why not get a group of young men together and share ideas of how you are able to rein in your thoughts and remain pure despite temptations?
This will probably be much easier than getting the whole college to dress the way you would see fit. Short of banning certain clothing, I’m not sure how you would do that. Now that’s not to say it hasn’t been done in other parts of the world but I am not sure such a rule would go over well in an american college.
Personally, I don’t think such a ban would cause people to sin less, because outside the college walls people can dress anyway they like. So it still comes down to the individual being able to control himself or herself.

 

[hwriggles4]

Latinitas:

Thank you for taking this initiative.

Seriously, I had a co-worker who graduated from UCSB, which was close to the beach in Santa Barbara, California. In the summer, he told me that sometimes men and women would come to class directly from the beach, and professors were putting their foot down telling the ladies (and the men) to “cover up” before coming to class.

Here are some tips for modesty for men (I’m a guy myself):

1. Please take your ball cap off before entering a building. A male student can put it in his book bag.
2. Don’t wear T-Shirts with obscenities, beer advertisements, or drawings of women who are scantily clad.
3. The short shorts from the 70’s that your dad owned are out of style.
4. Unless you on the swim team, ditch the speedos and go with board shorts at the pool.
5. The sleeveless T-Shirts from the 80’s are also out of style.

I know it’s summertime, particularly in the South, but the way some women dress can sometimes be a distraction for the men. At Mass, I notice more that women are wearing a light sweater or a jacket with their sundress to cover their shoulders. I thank these women for doing that, and I do know a few of them bring in a sweater because the A/C is cold. My pastor and a neighboring pastor put a letter out about proper attire for Mass. My mother is an EMHC at her parish, and they even had a huge discussion about appropriate attire for Mass, because there was an incident with a dropped host.

I can see a dress code being adopted for places like class, the library, etc. I remember one college I attended shorts were not allowed in the law library, and the upper division of the business school also had a dress code. I know Christendom and the College of St. Mary Magdalene have dress codes for classes, the library, the cafeteria, and for Mass.

For science majors (pre-med was about equal gender), the laboratories may want to implement a dress code. Safety is one reason, but another is the A/C in a few of those places is extremely cold.

In a huge lecture hall, the chairs are often sloped at different levels, so I could see where the men sitting on the back rows could be distracted if the women sitting in the middle are wearing camisole tops, shorts, or are wearing a top that’s a little too short. This is a case where women may want to think about adding an extra layer for class.

By the way, while I’m not dead and I am definitely straight, I do find seeing a woman’s bra straps a distraction. Women may want to buy those hooks that are advertised on TV or sold at the register at Walgreens to wear with some outfits that will secure their straps. I did read something the other day that was encouraging for the ladies - mid-rise pants are making a comeback.

By the way, some gymnasiums have adopted dress codes, in order to eliminate some distractions.

Latinitas, I hope this helps. I probably got a little more detailed, but I think we are on the same page.

As I close, I do agree with one poster that going through student services and getting some backing from students of both sexes first would be a prudent decision.

 

[Latinitas]

Thank you all for your points; they are sincerely helpful.

I’m not even sure I’ll send a letter, since, being a young man, it is a bit awkward for me to do this. Again, this was a counselor’s idea.

But, even if I do, I’ll take your points to heart, especially the part about men dressing modestly, since this is actually point I often think about.

Thank you again,
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Your letter did not sound preachy to me. Your letter does not blame women’s dress for men’s lust – it blames women’s dress for the way they dress. And it blames the lust of men for wanting to ogle them.

There may not be any tangible results, but for a Catholic college you are only telling them what they should already be encouraging. Whether you send the letter or not, know that I do not think you were being blaming, haughty, or otherwise negative.

That said, it is our challenge as Christians to live in peace and love even among sinners, and Jesus definitely hung around sinners so avoiding everyone who sins or tempts sin is probably not a practical solution unless one wants to join a religious order and go live away from other people or something.

MS

 

[mdgspencer]

Good for you in what you are saying, Latinas. You probably didn’t realize that when someone tries to uphold modesty on a catholic answers forum, some people will immediately begin attacking you. I have seen this happen time and again here. Perhaps they are the same people each time. You should know though that some people will agree with you. Good for you for your good standards. You shouldn’t be discouraged for believing in modesty.