Liberty and Human Value

[lemondiesel]

Life is only valuable where Liberty is established.

Your claim is still wrong because it is contrary to reality and human experience.

That is a preposterous statement which is not worth answering.

My opinion is based on this question, “Are we living or just surviving?”

What is the difference? Aren’t we surviving to live?

There is such a thing as living. Freedom and Liberty is living. It’s the individuals that see past the robotic life style that many are trapped in. These are the ones that embrace life and all the Rights given to us. It is what makes human life truly valuable, because we break away from the safety and protection of our sheep herders, for we are no longer mere sheep. We become our own shepherds.

Liberty is a sheep with no wool. Wool only represents the value desired by the herder.

We are not valuable solely because of our ability to reason, that is simply what makes us human. (just another species of mammalia) Life is only valuable when this reason is one with Liberty. Reason ourselves free from the wool.

The worst ones are the people who give those rights up in the name of safety, giving away our personal value. They become sheep, open to exploitation, only used for their wool.

Liberty is being heard around the globe, individuals are earning their value. It is not simply given to them.

Kept it brief. Ask or criticize, will respond to anything.

 

[tonyrey]

  	 				 				*Life is only valuable where Liberty is established.*

My opinion is based on this question, “Are we living or just surviving?”

What is the difference? Aren’t we surviving to live?

We are surviving not solely to live. It is better to die fighting for freedom rather than live as a slave.

There is such a thing as living. Freedom and Liberty is living. It’s the individuals that see past the robotic life style that many are trapped in. These are the ones that embrace life and all the Rights given to us. It is what makes human life truly valuable, because we break away from the safety and protection of our sheep herders, for we are no longer mere sheep. We become our own shepherds.

Or slaves if we have false gods such as money, power or pleasure!

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7523021

 

[Barbkw]

As our Constitution states, life is an unalienable right, it comes from God.

This might help you:

gemworld.com/USA-Unalienable.htm

“Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred.” Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523:

You can not surrender, sell or transfer unalienable rights, they are a gift from the creator to the individual and can not under any circumstances be surrendered or taken. All individual’s have unalienable rights.

Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights. Morrison v. State, Mo. App., 252 S.W.2d 97, 101.

You can surrender, sell or transfer inalienable rights if you consent either actually or constructively. Inalienable rights are not inherent in man and can be alienated by government. Persons have inalienable rights. Most state constitutions recognize only inalienable rights.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its …"

 

[GEddie]

We are surviving not solely to live. It is better to die fighting for freedom rather than live as a slave.

It is easier to escape from slavery than from death.

The value of human life must not be equated to particular political conditions.

Or slaves if we have false gods such as money, power or pleasure!

[

](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7523021)

ICXC NIKA

 

[fons_vitae]

The worst ones are the people who give those rights up in the name of safety, giving away our personal value. They become sheep, open to exploitation, only used for their wool.

Liberty is being heard around the globe, individuals are earning their value. It is not simply given to them.

I agree with your general concept (which I essentially take to be: “The unexamined life is not worth living,” etc.). But you also remark that individuals must “earn their value,” as you put it. No matter how enslaved a person is, they still have dignity.

 

[GratefulFred]

On a Catholic Forum, is there any discussion of our Freedom and Liberty in terms of our relationship with God?

I am old school Baltimore Catchecism: God made us to know Him, to love Him, to serve Him, and to be happy with Him in Heaven forever.

With this as my guiding principle, I am living, not just surviving. I am living to accomplish God’s Will. I freely choose to follow my Shepherd, Jesus Christ. I do not see myself as My Own Shepherd if that is meant to imply I can and should do as I please, ignoring any relationship to God, my maker.

With the Freedom I have I chose to follow Christ, to limit my choices willingly for the love of God.

ALL life is valuable, endowed with Liberty or not. Christ talked about slaves and still the need and value of living according to Christ regardless of our state in this life. I think it fair to say that Christ wanted Freedom for all of us but He loved slaves so they have value BECAUSE God loves, not because we earn value. Love is God’s great gift to us. God’s Love makes each of us of great value.

Alas I am a simple man and try to keep Christ as the center of my life. Without acknowledging this primary relationship, discussing Freedom and Liberty and the value of life misses the major point.

 

[lemondiesel]

As our Constitution states, life is an unalienable right, it comes from God.

Just because the Constitution tells me that doesn’t mean I agree with it.

they still have dignity.

How much is that dignity worth? Everything?

Why should you deserve my respect?

On a Catholic Forum, is there any discussion of our Freedom and Liberty in terms of our relationship with God?

I am old school Baltimore Catchecism: God made us to know Him, to love Him, to serve Him, and to be happy with Him in Heaven forever.

With this as my guiding principle, I am living, not just surviving. I am living to accomplish God’s Will. I freely choose to follow my Shepherd, Jesus Christ. I do not see myself as My Own Shepherd if that is meant to imply I can and should do as I please, ignoring any relationship to God, my maker.

With the Freedom I have I chose to follow Christ, to limit my choices willingly for the love of God.

ALL life is valuable, endowed with Liberty or not. Christ talked about slaves and still the need and value of living according to Christ regardless of our state in this life. I think it fair to say that Christ wanted Freedom for all of us but He loved slaves so they have value BECAUSE God loves, not because we earn value. Love is God’s great gift to us. God’s Love makes each of us of great value.

Alas I am a simple man and try to keep Christ as the center of my life. Without acknowledging this primary relationship, discussing Freedom and Liberty and the value of life misses the major point.

God gave us a completely different Freedom than what we think of in today’s time.

It doesn’t miss the point at all. If I was promised this Freedom, I want it. Why should Man change the view of it?

 

[lemondiesel]

On a Catholic Forum, is there any discussion of our Freedom and Liberty in terms of our relationship with God?

I am old school Baltimore Catchecism: God made us to know Him, to love Him, to serve Him, and to be happy with Him in Heaven forever.

With this as my guiding principle, I am living, not just surviving. I am living to accomplish God’s Will. I freely choose to follow my Shepherd, Jesus Christ. I do not see myself as My Own Shepherd if that is meant to imply I can and should do as I please, ignoring any relationship to God, my maker.

With the Freedom I have I chose to follow Christ, to limit my choices willingly for the love of God.

ALL life is valuable, endowed with Liberty or not. Christ talked about slaves and still the need and value of living according to Christ regardless of our state in this life. I think it fair to say that Christ wanted Freedom for all of us but He loved slaves so they have value BECAUSE God loves, not because we earn value. Love is God’s great gift to us. God’s Love makes each of us of great value.

Alas I am a simple man and try to keep Christ as the center of my life. Without acknowledging this primary relationship, discussing Freedom and Liberty and the value of life misses the major point.

God gave us a completely different Freedom than what we think of in today’s time.

It doesn’t miss the point at all. If I was promised this Freedom, I want it. Why should Man change the view of it?

 

[GratefulFred]

God gave us a completely different Freedom than what we think of in today’s time.

It doesn’t miss the point at all. If I was promised this Freedom, I want it. Why should Man change the view of it?

---

It would help if you could clarify. Describe what Freedom God gave us. Explain how today’s Freedom is different.

“Man”, those who do what they can to keep God out of their own and our lives, do try to change God’s Freedom. But we can study what God has told us, especially Jesus Christ and realize that God’s Freedom remains completely available to us today if we but choose to follow Christ as best we can.

 

[lemondiesel]

It would help if you could clarify. Describe what Freedom God gave us. Explain how today’s Freedom is different.

Sorry, I view a forum post like a girls skirt; long enough to cover what you need, but short enough to keep you interested

Wow, I’m so not funny haha.

In order to even understand that Freedom, one must understand our Mother. Out of this vast universe, one planet, one ball of rock, has become a living organism. The environment is perfect for life, and everything is in balance. Life is parasite, and giving back to this balance. It will remain this way unless something catastrophic interrupts.

Any organism can benefit from this as long as they do not interrupt the pattern. It is true Freedom, everything is connected, because everything works towards balance.

Today’s freedom is far different. The majority of us no longer pay honor to our Mother, and don’t even acknowledge the universe. We have created ideas like value and worth. We build sky scrappers and have cement everywhere. We go to work everyday to pay for things that the media have advertised as “hip” and “cool”. We pay taxes to an organization that protects us because we can’t get along with each other. We are just part of the system, I mean its human nature

“Man”, those who do what they can to keep God out of their own and our lives, do try to change God’s Freedom.

No it is people who are immediately sucked into the things like “American Liberty” that change God’s Freedom. God is within us all, He is us. Do you really expect me to believe one can know God, when they don’t even know themselves?

You must get lost before you can be found. (by yourself )

 

[fhansen]

Human liberty has value only because human life has value. True liberty is found when one freely chooses to turn God and away from a world that seeks to lead us around by the noses-always appealing to a pride that’s really just fear of what others think anyway.

 

[fons_vitae]

How much is that dignity worth? Everything?

Why should you deserve my respect?

I sincerely hope this is just an attempt at being provocative instead of an expression of misanthropy. You deserve my respect because you’re in God’s image. And if you want a nonreligious answer… well, look up a more sensible secular humanist. I thought they were supposedly all about the greatness of mankind–hence the term “humanism.”

 

[MindOverMatter2]

?

I don’t get it. What does it mean for my life to have value out side of God? Isn’t that just a fantasy that you want to impose on others?

 

[lemondiesel]

What does it mean for my life to have value out side of God?

It means your life has false value. I am not talking about with your friends and family, because their is value there, but in society, we are given values based on wealth. Our true purpose has been covered.

Don’t you find it funny that a penny has almost no worth for the purpose it is designed for. However, if you’re at the bottom of a chamber filled with water and need to turn a large screw to release a door to the outside, suddenly that penny is literally the most valuable thing in life.

Get happiness by denying yourself happiness.

edit: I am not disagreeing that our value is because we are in God’s image. I am just generalizing humankind here, which obviously, many do not believe in such a thing.

 

[fons_vitae]

edit: I am not disagreeing that our value is because we are in God’s image. I am just generalizing humankind here, which obviously, many do not believe in such a thing.

And those do not believe such a thing are probably what we’d call… jerks. All silliness aside, they’d probably be quite unpleasant to be around. I’d rather know someone who thought I was a human being with human dignity rather than a clump of dirt.

 

[lemondiesel]

I’d rather know someone who thought I was a human being with human dignity rather than a clump of dirt.

I completely agree bro

 

[TimothyH]

It’s the individuals that see…

…all the Rights given to us.

We become our own shepherds.

Life is only valuable when this reason is one with Liberty.

…giving away our personal value.

individuals are earning their value.

Pretty focused on the individual and self-experience, no? I think therefor I am?

I would rather say “I am, therefor I think” or better, “I am created in the image of God, therefor I love.” Free or otherwise, there is no greater self experience.

Your statement that life is only valuable where reason is one with liberty leaves no room for those with downs syndrome or a fetus and leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

-Tim-

 

[lemondiesel]

I would rather say “I am, therefor I think” or better, “I am created in the image of God, therefor I love.” Free or otherwise, there is no greater self experience.

Well then we are left with the great consciousness debate, aren’t we!

Your statement that life is only valuable where reason is one with liberty leaves no room for those with downs syndrome or a fetus and leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
It is not there fault, both of these are completely innocent. In this case, it is up to others with full use of reason to spread this valuable life.

And to be honest, I would honestly argue that many down syndrome people, children especially, already know this Freedom.

 

[tonyrey]

It is easier to escape from slavery than from death.

We cannot escape from death - at least not in the long term! Would you never fight to escape from slavery, not only for yourself but everyone else who is enslaved?