Licit and Valid?

[sw85]

Another way of understanding is that “licit” means “legal” and “valid” means “possible.”

A priest who monkeys around with the rubrics celebrates Mass illicitly, i.e., illegally, against the laws of the Church. A priest who omits the words of the consecration celebrates Mass invalidly, i.e., he doesn’t celebrate Mass at all, because Mass just does require the words of the consecration, and whatever lacks them by definition isn’t Mass.

 

[Aramis]

In the roman rite, it is not necessary for validity.

It’s present, but it’s before the institution narrative. Rome does require an invokation of the Holy Spirit. Unlike the Orthodox, Rome doesn’t object to it being prior to the institution narrative.

 

[superamazingman]

It’s present, but it’s before the institution narrative. Rome does require an invokation of the Holy Spirit. Unlike the Orthodox, Rome doesn’t object to it being prior to the institution narrative.

No, it doesn’t. An old book from before VII said that if the consecration was in doubt, (for example, there was no wine in the chalice), the institution narrative would be said.

The words “This is my body” and “this is … my blood” is the ONLY words that are needed for transubstantiation. That is the Roman tradition.

 

[Aramis]

No, it doesn’t. An old book from before VII said that if the consecration was in doubt, (for example, there was no wine in the chalice), the institution narrative would be said.

The words “This is my body” and “this is … my blood” is the ONLY words that are needed for transubstantiation. That is the Roman tradition.

And disagrees with Vatican 2 documents, as well as the approval for one of the Chaldean liturgies - the Anaphora of Sts. Addi and Mari - which lacks those words.

Which require an institution narrative, but not of need in the 1st person in persona mode, and require invoking the holy spirit.

 

[Vico]

I believe that Aramis refers to the Guidelines For Admission To The Eucharist Between The Chaldean Church And The Assyrian Church Of The East:
Finally, the words of Eucharistic Institution are indeed present in the Anaphora of Addai and Mari, not in a coherent narrative way and ad litteram, but rather in a dispersed euchological way, that is, integrated in successive prayers of thanksgiving, praise and intercession.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20011025_chiesa-caldea-assira_en.html