"Life Teen" Liturgy and it's destruction of centuries of Holy Tradition

[Servus_Pio_XII]

ncjohn:

Yeah, you’re right. The modern worship songs are all much more vulgar than any old bawdy tavern songs.

Servus, with all due respect, and with great admiration for your passion, you seem to have already developed a level of arrogance and certainty in your own infallibility that is quite frankly scary.

Without wishing you to dim your passion for God in the least, I hope you will prayerfully seek more to find His will rather than believiing you already have access to all the wisdom of the ages, and that there is nothing that anyone else might know that you don’t already have the answer to. Just as you know now more than you did when you were five, you will know much more 10 or 20 years from now than you do now…and you have no idea now what it is that you don’t know yet!

Don’t misunderstand me; I’m not “writing you off” for being young. You have a great degree of knowledge for your age, and a fire that we seldom see even in adults. As such you have much to contribute. You also however have much to learn, especially IMHO in dealing compassionately with other people. God made us differently, and to expect that everyone is going to have the same tastes and hew to your direction, as if you were God’s personal confidante, is way more than prideful.

Please pray for me to continue to grow in my wisdom and dedication as I will for you…

Peace,

No, I was referring to the quote someone made about modern bands dedicating their songs to the devil, not modern worship music.

I am sorry if I seem to consider myself infallible. I am still learning, and I will freely admit that. However, I am a debator at heart, and, as such I have learnt not to yield on points. In practicality, that doesn’t always work, and this I must work on.

Christ be with you.

Servus,

As a young Catholic adult, I do appreciate your steadfastness and enthusiasm with regard to the scandalous nature of much of today’s worship music. There are very few people who have the guts to put it on the line as you do.

I commend you for that. I suggest, however, that you use the term mislead rather than stupid. Further, continue to pray for these people who do not see liturgical music as you do. It is impossible to metamorphose thinking patterns immediately. RIght now, many people are not capable of seeing as you are seeing. The veil must be lifted from their eyes, and it will take a long, long time for many.

When the veil is lifted, they will realize God’s immutability, that He does not change with the times as many human civilzations have.

Do not be discouraged by seeming futility, as the gates of Hell will not prevail, and sometimes prayer is just the best answer. Further, pray for the charity to admonish others as Christ would, pointing “it” out, not pointing the person out. This is one of my personal struggles, too.

I see it as you see it, that Life-Teen and feel-good modern music at Mass are a dichotomous lie(that the church should become mutable to meet the wants of the people), and a return to sacred silence especially at offertory and Communion is the only adequate solution.

JD

Thank you.

As I have said, I am two things which do not combine well. I am both:

a) an idealist and
b) a debator.

What happens when you combine the two is a sort of rigidness in debating which, in the wrong environment, can be interpreted as being arrogant. Anyone who sees me as such, I am not trying to be.

Pray the Rosary is what I recommend. We are going into battle against the liberalisation of Roman Catholicism. Only Jesus’ promise of the Gates of Hell not prevailing can we rely on as hope. Godspeed, and God Bless you. As my old parish priest used to say, “Fight the good fight!”

 

[davemcher5]

When you make a post like this, please don’t generalize to have Life Teen as the source of the problem. Other Teen & High School groups & masses have also caused this issue to be critcal. We should be happy today’s Teens are going to mass.

I am more offended by secular music being played at Teen masses, either at a high school or a church, as I have experienced. I think some adults have been bought off by the idea that you need modern & Christian rock type music to get teens to mass.

At the same time, I also don’t like *Amazing Grace * & How Great thow art & Soon and very soon songs, which sound Protestant to me.

I would prefer the “Glory & Praise” music written by the Jesuits & nuns, who have based their songs on Catholic scripture. I find it offensive that these songs based on our bible are passed over for the above.

AS for instruments allowed, if we strictly interpret the documents of Vatican II and Trent, we could eliminate the organ as well. I am quite sure there are pieces for or that can be played on the organ that are secular, even if it was not by Mozart or Beethoven. I think the acoutic guitar became popular due to missionaries having used them in third world countries, and then brought such here. What the diocese allows is up to them… If certain instruments are really not allowed, the Bishops should be correcting parishes.

Going back to Latin mass, organ only music, or even chant music are nice ideas, but it is not the solution to abuses found in certain modern masses. It would be nice to have the music be more Catholic. Also as stated before, I am sure that you should be able to traditional Latin mass somewhere. To be angry that mass isn’t done the way “I” want it done, does not help us to be one church. I think we need to re examine the the post-Vatican II
mass, and see the good things that have come out of it.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

That’s exactly the point! the TRUE Post Vatican II Mass is not what goes on in most Churches. It was supposed to have Chant in a “place of prominence” it was supposed to only use laity in “extraordinary circumstances”. It was not supposed to degrade into what it has now, and the fact that it has is a very good indication that we need to return to the steady path, rather than the rickety adventure-movie rope bridge we are trying to navigate.

 

[beckyann2597]

DavidJoseph:

Something to consider …

If Queen Elizabeth were coming, would there be rock music or something much more dignified-sounding? The latter, right? How much more so should we play dignified-sounding music for the King of Kings!

So what kind of music would the Queen endorse? Classical? Certainly! Rock and Pop? YES! Read this…
cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/04/world/main510995.shtml
I watched parts of the concert and it seemed really fun.
Have any of you been to a Life Teen Mass? My daughter’s Godfather (One of our best friends) is a band leader for a Lifeteen Mass and He does a great job of balancing reverance and contemporary appeal in the music.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

I tried a bit of an experiment to-day. I had prayer in Theology class, and I brought in “Catholic Latin Classics” and played the Tantum Ergo.

Rather than receiving the jeers, as I thought I would, the class was simply silent after it finished.

Perhaps the teens of to-day might embrace the Traditions IF EXPOSED TO THEM.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Servus Pio XII:

Perhaps the teens of to-day might embrace the Traditions IF EXPOSED TO THEM.

Yes, I assure you that they will. We’d prefer real Catholic music and liturgies rather than stuff you hear on the radio. From what I hear, youth like me are more prone to be traditional and conservative than the youth of 30 years ago. Thank God!

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

I am a youth like you!

I would like to see a Church of to-morrow in which there co-exists a reverent, pariticipatory Novus Ordo conducted in a manner which blends the new and the old, and a TLM which seeks to preserve for our posterity the ancient traditions of the Church.

I would like to see, in this Church, all cultures putting aside differences to worship alike, not a Church in which the cultures differentiate the Mass to suit them. I would like to see a truly Universal Church, both physically universal and chronologically, which embraces the PROPERLY CONDUCTED Novus Ordo and the Tridentine.

And, if I do become a priest, I will seek to help build such a Church!

God Bless the Roman Catholic Church!

 

[ncjohn]

Servus Pio XII:

I am a youth like you!

I would like to see a Church of to-morrow in which there co-exists a reverent, pariticipatory Novus Ordo conducted in a manner which blends the new and the old, and a TLM which seeks to preserve for our posterity the ancient traditions of the Church.

I would like to see, in this Church, all cultures putting aside differences to worship alike, not a Church in which the cultures differentiate the Mass to suit them. I would like to see a truly Universal Church, both physically universal and chronologically, which embraces the PROPERLY CONDUCTED Novus Ordo and the Tridentine.

And, if I do become a priest, I will seek to help build such a Church!

God Bless the Roman Catholic Church!

While I applaud your desire for unity Servus, the fact is that we come from different cultures who have different emphases and different gifts, just as we have different gifts as individuals.

Even the Popes and the Church documents have told us that this variety of expression and culture is good. Not only that, JP2 told the Eastern Rite Churches to go back to their initial callings and liturgies and to “de Latinze.”

We have a really big God who is capable of communicating with each one of us in our uniqueness. He can deal with the differences in upbringing, culture, language, experience, personality, tastes, understanding, age, and all the other myriad variables that makes each one of us unique. God did not create us all alike and there is no reason to believe that He is expecting little robots that each parrot back identical words.

I don’t think you’ll find anything in Church teaching that would indicate that God will accept only one type of worship. In the end it is about our individual journeys in seeking communion with that awesome God. Liturgies are vehicles to accomplish that and have to be relevant to the people for whom they are intended. Even the Church specifically states that it has intentionally left lattitude for incorporation of appropriate cultural differences. There is no “magic formula” that God is expecting; the only gift we have to give Him is ourselves, in all of our brokeness and weakness.

Ultimately we have to come to believe as Julian of Norwich told us, that God “dances with joy at the very thought of us.” It’s not about which song we sing; it’s that we sang. It’s not whether we prayed in Latin or English; it’s that we prayed. It’s not whether we stood or knelt for communion; it’s that we sought communion!

It’s time to stop making the Little Drummer Boy think that his gift isn’t good enough. Using the gifts we are given is the Great Gift back.

Peace,

 

[DavidJoseph]

beckyann2597:

So what kind of music would the Queen endorse? Classical? Certainly! Rock and Pop? YES! Read this…
cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/04/world/main510995.shtml
I watched parts of the concert and it seemed really fun.

But that’s just it – it was a concert. The Mass isn’t a concert, nor is it supposed to be treated like one. And while rock and pop was played at a concert in honor of Queen Elizabeth, it doesn’t mean that that type of music is always and everywhere acceptable to honor her.

Have any of you been to a Life Teen Mass? My daughter’s Godfather (One of our best friends) is a band leader for a Lifeteen Mass and He does a great job of balancing reverance and contemporary appeal in the music.

I’ve been to several LifeTeen Masses. I didn’t like them – too irreverent. It wasn’t the fault of any particular teen there but rather the fact that LifeTeen Masses are intrinsically irreverent. Rock music is not reverent, and there’s no way to make it reverent for Mass. As I said once in this thread, you can spray perfume on poop, but it’ll still stink.

 

[JSmitty2005]

I think this liberal/progressive protestantization of the Church’s liturgy in the forms of contemporary praise and worship (aka life teen) messes is what’s drawing me to the Eastern rites. I am impressed with their beauty and reverence. However, I am a Latin Rite Catholic and my family has always been in the Latin Rite. I have no real connection to the Eastern Rites. It is disappointing that my spiritual heritage as well as many others is being destroyed by these newchurch leaders. I want to worship the way my ancestors did. It is not our place to invent a new exciting liturgy to our preferences. We should be worshipping God the way he wants to be worshipped rather than the way we want to worship him - that’s what Protestants do. I am not opposed to reform, in fact, Trent reformed some things. I just want to be able to recognize the continuity between the Tridentine & Novus Ordo Masses because I do believe that V2 was legit but that it was just distorted into the ‘spirit of the council’ as a way for satan to infiltrate the Church, like pope Paul VI said. Read my post on another thread about my experience at World Youth Day.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1019346#post1019346

 

[JSmitty2005]

DavidJoseph:

As I said once in this thread, you can spray perfume on poop, but it’ll still stink.

Nice analogy! Very fitting.

 

[Prometheum_x]

JSmitty2005:

I think this liberal/progressive protestantization of the Church’s liturgy in the forms of contemporary praise and worship (aka life teen) messes is what’s drawing me to the Eastern rites. I am impressed with their beauty and reverence. However, I am a Latin Rite Catholic and my family has always been in the Latin Rite. I have no real connection to the Eastern Rites. It is disappointing that my spiritual heritage as well as many others is being destroyed by these newchurch leaders. I want to worship the way my ancestors did. It is not our place to invent a new exciting liturgy to our preferences. We should be worshipping God the way he wants to be worshipped rather than the way we want to worship him - that’s what Protestants do. I am not opposed to reform, in fact, Trent reformed some things. I just want to be able to recognize the continuity between the Tridentine & Novus Ordo Masses because I do believe that V2 was legit but that it was just distorted into the ‘spirit of the council’ as a way for satan to infiltrate the Church, like pope Paul VI said. Read my post on another thread about my experience at World Youth Day.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1019346#post1019346

And God said, “Let there be organs!” And there were organs. And they played many fugues. And God saw – and heard – that it was very good.

And Satan said, “I will ascend to the heavens. I will invent drums and electric guitars, and I will smash all the organs and take over the world with my 4/4 measures with accents on beats 2 and 4 and syncopation.”

Or something like that.

---

While very few will actually state it in that way, this caricature often seems to be lurking beneath the surface of these criticisms of “contemporary” music.

On this thread, and many others like it, we can rephrase the classic verse in this way:

Round and round the rugged Rock 'n Roll debate we ragged rascals run.

Over and over again, we hash out the same “arguments” on whether this so-called “contemporary” music is appropriate in the Liturgy. I hesitate to call the arguments, because there is generally not much in the way of serious argument to them. They generally take the form of glorified sentiment. Those against seem incapable of actually defining what they mean by the terms “contemporary” “rock” “praise and worship” and those in favor are generally so busy defending “their music” that they gloss over the valid concerns of their opposites.

My personal thought at the moment, influenced somewhat by reading Thomas Day’s “Why Catholics Can’t Sing” last night, is that this is just a subset of what is really a general cultural issue. Most people who have an opinion on music are neither experts in music nor in the Liturgy. I wouldn’t even describe myself as an expert, though I am more of an expert on music than most who have musical opinions by virtue of my actual involvement in the field, both with secular and sacred music. But people have strong opinions, because music is capable of profoundly inspiring us or disturbing us, and it carries with it a cultural significance. We know it is something which impacts us, whether or not we have a clue what it is or how it is working.

Our spiritual life is a part of our cultural life and vice versa. Thus, what is threatening to our cultural heritage by association seems threatening to our spiritual heritage. And it may be. But that is not a necessary connection.

Quite frankly, your spiritual heritage is not being destroyed, at least not in terms of what is most significant: The Triune God, the Sacraments, the Scripturesm, the Church, etc. These are the most valuable parts of your spiritual heritage and are in fact the source from which all authentic spiritual heritage flows. They are primary and they take precedence over all else.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Pope Calls for More Efforts in Liturgical Music
In a Message to Experts Gathered at the Vatican

VATICAN CITY, DEC. 5, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI appealed for greater attention to sacred liturgical music, in a message sent to the prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments.

In his brief message to Cardinal Francis Arinze, the Pope greeted the participants in a day of study organized today by that Vatican dicastery on the topic “Sacred Music: A Liturgical and Pastoral Challenge.”

The congress was responding to Pope John Paul II’s desire, expressed in a 2003 chirograph, in which he called the dicastery to intensify its efforts in the field of sacred liturgical music.

“Echoing the call of my beloved predecessor, I would like to encourage those who cultivate sacred music to continue this journey,” said Benedict XVI said.

In particular, the Holy Father suggested that the Vatican congregation reflect “on the relationship between music and liturgy, while remaining attentive to practical applications and experimentation, and maintaining constant understanding and collaboration with national episcopal conferences.”

When opening the congress, Cardinal Arinze explained: “Sacred music must be in accord with the grandeur of the liturgical act that celebrates the mysteries of Christ; it must be characterized by a sense of prayer, beauty and dignity.”

Vatican Radio quoted him saying: “In no way must it give way to shallowness, superficiality or theatricality.”
ZE05120506

 

[maryalene]

Prometheum_x:

And God said, “Let there be organs!” And there were organs. And they played many fugues. And God saw – and heard – that it was very good.

And Satan said, “I will ascend to the heavens. I will invent drums and electric guitars, and I will smash all the organs and take over the world with my 4/4 measures with accents on beats 2 and 4 and syncopation.”

LOL