Lifeteen Mass, building block or misrepresentation

[Isadore96]

EENS:

Oh, yes, I know that. Bugnini, a freemason, was the writer of the New Mass with the assistence of 6 protestants (calvinists). However, there are some errors in the documents themselves, both in what it states about the Mass and abotu other things. For example, the Mass should never be said in the vernacular. There is no such thing as “religious freedom” by which we can choose what religion we want based on our conscience, etc. That is, as you said, modernism, a heresy. However, modernism did not only extend to the interpreters but also to the documents of Vatican II themselves, as Paul VI states, “The smoke of Satan has entered the Church.” God bless.

But don’t forget, although the modernists got some vague writing in, the Holy Spirit did not let any errors in. Vatican II is far different than what we have now. The bad thing is not Vatican II. It is what has been done, falsely in the name of vatican II

 

[pnewton]

Melman:

Which continues to drive the “you are a special group” nail, rather than promote integration into the more general parish family.

If half the energy of LT programs was put into parish-wide activities, I think we’d all be better for it.

I think Melman hits on a significant critique of LifeTeen. I do feel however there is nothing wrong with a specialized youth program, any more than the KC which caters to men, Catholic daughters (men not allowed), or RCIA for catacumens. Still, Melman is mentions the need to promote parish integration. Every parishoner needs to be integrated into the whole community. Attending LifeTeen Masses exclusively lends a narrow view of the nature of the Church. All youth need to be involved in the community at large.

 

[system]

pnewton:

All youth need to be involved in the community at large.

The question is, how - given the trends in the Church today.

For example, my childhood parish was in the country, perhaps 150 families. Lots of work to do - shoveling snow, raking leaves, cemetery cleanup, church cleaning and decorations, fundraisers, etc. It really only takes a couple of “pitching in” experiences to get a child to understand that they are a valued part of something.

But in that area today, parishes have been closed or merged. We’ve all moved away and attend urban parishes with thousands of families, where maintenance and such is all contracted out. There’s a big hole, and Life Teen tries to fill it with good intentions. But they’re missing the big picture.

 

[pnewton]

The opportunities for service are boundless for teens. How about taking over some of the yard work on a permanent basis, or a portion of the landscaping? A one time work day is would provide a labor pool that I’m sure any priest would love to have. On the liturgical side, why not on occasion participate in the “regular” Masses being offered in your parish. You could even give the choir a day off and sing. Of course as an act of service it would be neccessary to use music appropriate to that Mass, as well as live some of the instruments in their cases. Learning some traditional music for such a service would be an act of love for the community that provides you with the TeenLife activities. Return something to them.

 

[The_Vatican_Two]

pnewton:

The music (4 guitars and a drum set) was unbearably loud and the applause distracting.

I worry about this. I’m sure that many of the teens stay Catholic once they graduate. I worry that many of them will leave the Catholic Church because the rock band is only present at the Life Teen Mass. Where else can you find a rock band at church?? Take a walk down the street to the local non-denominational church. You’ll find them up there center stage behind the podium.

We’re living in an entertainment based culture. It seems that many feel that they need to be entertained at church.

:twocents:

 

[baltobetsy]

The_Vatican_Two:

I worry about this. I’m sure that many of the teens stay Catholic once they graduate. I worry that many of them will leave the Catholic Church because the rock band is only present at the Life Teen Mass.

In my experience attending the occasional LifeTeen Mass, I see that no one ever really leaves - unless they go to college out of town, and then they still come when they’re home. The participants grow up, marry each other, have babies and bring them to the LifeTeen Mass. In addition, there are a large number of people in the over 40 crowd who seem to enjoy this Mass. And of course that Sunday evening time period can be a lifesaver for many who would otherwise not make it to Mass. Young adults who’ve been out late on Saturday night come to mind.

In the parish I’ve been to with LifeTeen, the young people are very well catechized - they know what’s going on at Mass and they are very devout. Many come early to pray. In the beginning, they gathered around the altar (incorrectly), but the new pastor ended this practice.

It’s all in how you do things. LifeTeen can be very good or very bad, or anything in between.

Betsy

 

[Protoclete]

There seems to be a loose use of the term abuse (rhyming not intended).

Things like gathering around the altar, holding hands at the Our Father, having rock bands in church, or kneeling during the communion procession…these may not be ideal, or may not be appropriate at times but they are not considered abuses, (your personal opinions notwhitstanding).

Liturgical abuse refers to actual damage to the liturgy, for example: using pizza and coke instead of bread and wine for the eucharistic elements, changing the Eucharistic prayer to change its meaning, or replacing the Liturgy of the Word with Stations of the Cross or something else…

Surely everyone can see the difference?

 

[findinghumility]

James0235:

Gathering around the altar is forbidden and there are plenty of Life Teen programs that don’t do for that reason. However, something like holding hands during the Our Father is not forbidden. It may be pointless and look silly but it is not forbidden. The Church legislates posture (stand, sit, kneel) but not gesture (holding hands, hands in the air, etc.).

James

Not exactly true. If you search EWTN’s Q&A you will find articles explaining that prolonged hand holding is am outward sign of communion among the people that IS inapropriate. Of course when you have a Communion Service that allows for constant inovations and changes, what do you expect?

 

[Psalm45_9]

*pro-life_teen*:

In my experience, I’ve found that Life Teen puts on some INCREDIBLE, life-changing retreats (I’ve met Bob Rice and Fr. Stan Fortuna because of a local conference), but I don’t really feel comfortable ‘officially’ joining them or going to the Life Teen Mass because it feels as if their worship is kind of sugar-coated and ‘for show’ (no offense to those who are really truly comfortable holding up their hands in worship, etc.).

I guess one bad experience I had was when the Life Teen leader went up after Mass and harshly chastised those who “were embarassed to show how much they loved Jesus” because they didn’t go up around the altar or did the hand movements and dances to the songs. He said that that obviously meant you didn’t love Jesus and He would be embarassed of you when you met Him.

That really angered me because I am not really the “extroverted worship” sort of person if you know what I mean, and just because I don’t feel the need or inner prompting to “do a dance for Jesus” obviously does NOT mean I don’t love Him.

This has been my experience with life teen, if you don’t worship like them, then you aren’t experiencing Jesus.

 

[muledog]

Protoclete:

Liturgical abuse refers to actual damage to the liturgy, for example: using pizza and coke instead of bread and wine for the eucharistic elements, changing the Eucharistic prayer to change its meaning, or replacing the Liturgy of the Word with Stations of the Cross or something else…

The things you mentioned all make the Mass INVALID. There are other instances of abuse that can make a Mass ILLICIT that aren’t as drastic as those you mentioned.

I believe that the USCCB website has posted a pretty good list of abused in a BCL newsletter regarding Redemptionis Sacramentum.