Lifting the veil

[flick427]

I was at work today and made a comment to a protestant (baptist)about how the Catholic faith runs similiar in practice to that of the Jewish faith. I do not know the verse, but it says that Jesus came to perfect the law or something like that??? So that is why I would say Catholics worship similiar to Jews, but in a different way since we go through Jesus who has been revealed to us. My Baptist friend said that we are not supposed to because Jesus “lifted the veil” or something like that(don’t know what verse says that either). I am looking for some weapons to combat this with and “prove” it wrong with Scripture or anything else.
Any knowledge on this?

 

[Chaffa55]

Flick,

I think your friend is referring to this scripture passage (underlining is mine):
2 Cor 3:7-14
**
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
**
**I think it’s clear from this passage your friend’s argument does not stand up. Certainly we as Catholics turn to the Lord in our worship and entire way of life. Is this what you are looking for? Peace.

 

[flick427]

Chaffa55:

Flick,

I think your friend is referring to this scripture passage (underlining is mine):
2 Cor 3:7-14

*Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! *
Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

I think it’s clear from this passage your friend’s argument does not stand up. Certainly we as Catholics turn to the Lord in our worship and entire way of life. Is this what you are looking for? Peace.

Thanks, this sounds like some of what I am looking for.
I think that he is seeing it somehow that we are no longer supposed to worship like we (as Jews) did in the Old Testament. Most denominations don’t really “participate” in any offerings to God duing their service other than pray which is a two way conversation with God and us, they sing, read scripture, and have fellowship.
We Catholics see it this way: God is perfect and unchanging, therefore, we still worship Him how he outlined in the Old Testament, however it was perfected by Jesus. We (with the help of wonderful people like Moses) use to offer animal sacrifices to God and go through the priest to give to and recieve from Our Lord. Now Jesus comes along because we can not go directly to God and can not atone for our own sin…we now go to the priest who is a representative and instrument of Jesus, and the sacrifice that is offered to Our Lord is not “animal” as it use to be…it has now been perfected by the Passion and Death of Jesus Christ, since He alone can atone for the sins of man…every Mass, Jesus offers Himself to Our Heavenly Father for us and the Priest prays, and we, along with the priest.
…it is hard for me though, to back this up to a protestant using scripture.

 

[Chaffa55]

I don’t think Paul was comparing the rites and rituals of Judaism and Christianity in this letter. Rather, I think he dealing with basics and comparing the faiths themselves; the law of Moses (…the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone…) with Christianity (…the ministry of the Spirit…). He uses this approach to point out the superiority of following Christ. The text shows his typical “if that was good, then this must far better” device in contrasting the faiths.

I think there is a strong parallel in this text to Paul’s comparison of Judaism and Christianity in Romans 2 & 3. He uses the same sort of comparison in that text, but it is longer more fully developed. You might want to consider reviewing that text too and showing both to your friend. It seems to me both texts are making the same point, put simply that Christianity is superior to Judaism.