Limiting Children and Selfishness

[DihydrogenOxide]

I noticed something that seems to be similar with many people that I’ve counseled going into abortion clinics. It also seems to be something that is ever a problem in our society today.

The argument “We only wanted (number) kids and we’re done.” or “We can’t afford anymore kids.”

Or “I only want 2 kids, a boy and a girl”, etc.

Whatever happened to faith in God’s providence? Did so many people lose faith in God?

I tell people, if God gave you that child, He will find a way for you to provide for it. That’s the purpose of marriage! It’s not an easy vocation!

I remember Loretta Lynn saying something like, “I told my mother that I wanted 6 kids. I thought my mom would be happy by it. My mother looked angry and said, ‘You’ll have as many kids as the Good Lord gives you.’”

I love the idea of being open to the will of God. This is why, I suppose, I’m even more traditional than NFP. I think that God gives every child, and, as such, God will provide.

Did anyone else notice this in our culture or in counseling at abortuaries?

 

[Rence]

Not wanting many children does not equate to being in favor of abortion. I wouldn’t have an abortion (except if my very life was in peril I probably would. And if I were raped, there’s nothing I wouldn’t do faster than taking Plan B) just because I only want one or two. Being “open to life” means accepting the children that were conceived willingly, not churning out children by the dozen. People who are called to have large families are having them. Those that are called to have small families are having small families. In the end, it all works out.

Consider that when the majority of families were having big families, it was for a few reasons. First of all, the life expectancy of children was very low. Children died more often and the chance of having a few live to adulthood was low, therefore they had more children.

Also, when the majority of people were having very large families, they were mostly living in rural places were it took more people to bring in the harvest and provide for the family. One or two children and two adults living on the farm wasn’t as successful as having many more children to help out. It made things much harder and productivity was lower. Nowadays, it’s very expensive to raise children and provide them for all that they need. Those who don’t have some kind of trade don’t do well stastically, whereas, it wasn’t so imperitive to be educated way back when the majority of families were big families. The expenses, of course, will vary according to region, but more children = more clothes, more food, more things, in addition to electricity, water, gas (if you have gas-run heat and water), etc.

That’s not all to say that big families should, or do, live on farms, But the fact is, the big family:small family ratio has flipped because of our concentrated cities and the changes in our culture.

It doesn’t have anything to do with providence for many people. They just aren’t called to have large families, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t open to life and will willingly accept any new babies ‘God sends them’.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Rence wrote:

Being “open to life” means accepting the children that were conceived willingly, not churning out children by the dozen.

My will be done, on earth and in heaven.

 

[catharina]

Not wanting many children does not equate to being in favor of abortion. **I wouldn’t have an abortion (except if my very life was in peril I probably would. And if I were raped, there’s nothing I wouldn’t do faster than taking Plan B) just because I only want one or two. Being “open to life” means accepting the children that were conceived willingly, not churning out children by the dozen. **People who are called to have large families are having them. Those that are called to have small families are having small families. In the end, it all works out.

Your words above are a rejection of Church teaching - and you know that.
I (and many others) have called you out about this. Would be great if
you could learn to say: "I’m Catholic but I would totally reject the absolute
teachings of the Church if I became pregnant ‘unexpectedly’ or felt that
my life was put in danger … because hey, that’s me.

Real Church teaching is: If one becomes pregnant, then one carries the baby to term.
It is not “hey, I’m RENCE and I only WANT one or two.”

Consider that when the majority of families were having big families, it was for a few reasons. First of all, the life expectancy of children was very low. Children died more often and the chance of having a few live to adulthood was low, therefore they had more children.

Also, when the majority of people were having very large families, they were mostly living in rural places were it took more people to bring in the harvest and provide for the family. One or two children and two adults living on the farm wasn’t as successful as having many more children to help out. It made things much harder and productivity was lower. Nowadays, it’s very expensive to raise children and provide them for all that they need. Those who don’t have some kind of trade don’t do well stastically, whereas, it wasn’t so imperitive to be educated way back when the majority of families were big families. The expenses, of course, will vary according to region, but more children = more clothes, more food, more things, in addition to electricity, water, gas (if you have gas-run heat and water), etc.

That’s not all to say that big families should, or do, live on farms, But the fact is, the big family:small family ratio has flipped because of our concentrated cities and the changes in our culture.

It doesn’t have anything to do with providence for many people. They just aren’t called to have large families, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t open to life and will willingly accept any new babies ‘God sends them’.

 

[HouseArrest]

Not wanting many children does not equate to being in favor of abortion. I wouldn’t have an abortion (except if my very life was in peril I probably would. And if I were raped, there’s nothing I wouldn’t do faster than taking Plan B) just because I only want one or two. Being “open to life” means accepting the children that were conceived willingly, not churning out children by the dozen. People who are called to have large families are having them. Those that are called to have small families are having small families. In the end, it all works out.

Consider that when the majority of families were having big families, it was for a few reasons. First of all, the life expectancy of children was very low. Children died more often and the chance of having a few live to adulthood was low, therefore they had more children.

Also, when the majority of people were having very large families, they were mostly living in rural places were it took more people to bring in the harvest and provide for the family. One or two children and two adults living on the farm wasn’t as successful as having many more children to help out. It made things much harder and productivity was lower. Nowadays, it’s very expensive to raise children and provide them for all that they need. Those who don’t have some kind of trade don’t do well stastically, whereas, it wasn’t so imperitive to be educated way back when the majority of families were big families. The expenses, of course, will vary according to region, but more children = more clothes, more food, more things, in addition to electricity, water, gas (if you have gas-run heat and water), etc.

That’s not all to say that big families should, or do, live on farms, But the fact is, the big family:small family ratio has flipped because of our concentrated cities and the changes in our culture.

It doesn’t have anything to do with providence for many people. They just aren’t called to have large families, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t open to life and will willingly accept any new babies ‘God sends them’.

A great illustration of the OP’s point.

 

[catharina]

my will be done, on earth and in heaven.

yep.

a great illustration of the op’s point.

yep.

 

[vera_dicere]

Children are now the enemy. Its not just some speil spouted by the abortionists and people going in those places to murder their children.

I hear the whole “oh, 2 is enough” or “why have more than one?” from so many people, all the time, and from Catholics as well as non.

Contraception reduced children to something we are to avoid at all costs, a terrible consquence/accident when engaging in sex. People shack up, have a lot of sex, woman on the pill or whatever, people don’t loose that polluted ideal of sex and children when they marry. They take that disgusting ideal into their married life and stop with one, or two or three - and even three is considered too many by a lot of people.

We put too much value on rubbish like computers and cars and TVs and “keeping up with the Joneses”, but will that TV comfort you on your death bed? Will that computer come to your retirement party? Will that car have children of their own that you can enjoy in your advanced age? Nope. This society teaches people that it’s better to spare the planet and have a TV then to have a child.

It is no surprise that people post rubbish about not wanting mroe than a small number of children, its no surprise that people view children concieved in rape as just much an enemy as the rapist, - yet the rapist wouldn’t be killed if he were caught [well, not in most countries].

Our hideous society has done this to itself. We will die out, as all societies who have reduced children to teh enemy have, every society that sacrifices its kids dies.

And FYI, there is NO Condition, NONE, NADDA, ZIP, that requires the death of the foetus to save the mother - premature delivery of the pregnancy doesn’t have to result with a dead baby.

 

[VietCatholicMom]

My husband and I have two beautiful children and I don’t plan on having any more due to a personal fear of not being able to provide for them or giving them enough attention. That being said, I trust in God’s providence and have recently discovered the beauty of marriage through NFP practices. If God so pleases, I am open to having children because my fear for Him exceeds my fear of not being able to provide. Only God knows what is best for me and my family.

Rence wrote: Being “open to life” means accepting the children that were conceived willingly, not churning out children by the dozen.

My will be done, on earth and in heaven.

I disagree with Rence’s post. Being “open to life” means birthing all children, whether you willed it or not. Plan B is not an option. Also, under no circumstances will I decide a fetus’ death to save my life. Abortion is not an option.

I agree with Jim Dandy’s post. God’s will be done, on earth and in heaven.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

My husband and I have two beautiful children and I don’t plan on having any more due to a personal fear of not being able to provide for them or giving them enough attention. That being said, I trust in God’s providence and have recently discovered the beauty of marriage through NFP practices. If God so pleases, I am open to having children because my fear for Him exceeds my fear of not being able to provide. Only God knows what is best for me and my family.

Viet Catholic Mom:
I would say, “Well said.” But fear of God just just doesn’t cut it when we’re scared out of our wits with mortal dread because our world has fallen apart (out of work for 4 months, fridge is empty, 2 months behind on the rent, car just broke down…). The only thing that will do it then is KNOWING just how much God LOVES us, just how He’s bailed us out before, and how He stands ready to bail us out if we ask (he will usually use people, but He will bail us out)…

I disagree with Rence’s post. Being “open to life” means birthing all children, whether you willed it or not. Plan B is not an option. Also, under no circumstances will I decide a fetus’ death to save my life. Abortion is not an option.

I agree with Jim Dandy’s post. God’s will be done, on earth and in heaven.

…We tend to call these “Bail-outs” “Deliverances”. I once felt a hand pushing me up while I was drowning in the American River while a bunch of us were swimming down it - The only other person near me had giving up on trying to save me. Later that year, I fell down a mountain I was treeplanting on and ended up with my ankle caught between a stump and the ground. That saved me (and my supervisor and our inspector) from a 250’ drop into a ravine. Two years later, I snuck away while someone was hijacking the bus I was riding. The next thing I knew, I was describing the hijacker to the 911 operator with the hijacker standing 2-3’ from me. Less than two years later, I looked down the barrel of a gun and got away with my life. Maybe 5 years after that, I got out of a situation by making a bunch of gangbangers believe I had a bomb.

In 2003, I was brought back to the Lord when an Orthodox Israeli Rabbi risked his life and went to the Western Wall in Jerusalem. A woman was literally walked back from death’s doorstep, because he placed a request in a crack in the wall I posted to an internet forum we were both on. The next year, I found myself talking to someone else on the same Forum who arranged to allow Israeli Jews to go to the Western Wall to pray for a member of my church who was having a series of what should have been fatal strokes. He still has some physical problems, but he’s almost completely recovered. 4 Years ago, I found myself saying exactly what needed to be said to keep 3 gangbangers from stabbing someone to death.

One of God’s names is Yahweh Yireh - The Lord Provides
Walking Thoughts - Yahweh Yireh
Pastor Steve: Yahweh Yireh - The LORD will Provide
HE SPEAKS in the Silence - Yahweh Yireh: The Lord will provide

And, remember what St. Paul the Apostle says in Romans 8 -
Romans 8:15-39 BibleGateway
Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[Tigg]

We have forgotten about the sovereignty of God as it relates to life and can now happily control our own destiny and families with contraceptives. We have abandoned self-control in favor of the pleasure of sex and reduced the wonder of new life to a choice.

 

[Nate13]

Luke 22:40-44
New International Version (NIV)

40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[a]

What can we learn from this? What matters is God’s will and we should strive to align our will with God’s and not the other way around. It is also apparent that doing God’s will may bring us great anguish. Doing what is right is not a cakewalk. So sure maybe you only want two kids, but how many kids does God want you to have? We need to spend less time complaining about how the World is, and more time down on our knees asking God to give us the strength to deal with it, and the knowledge of what to do to make it better.

 

[catharina]

What can we learn from this? What matters is God’s will and we should strive to align our will with God’s and not the other way around. It is also apparent that doing God’s will may bring us great anguish. Doing what is right is not a cakewalk. So sure maybe you only want two kids, but how many kids does God want you to have? We need to spend less time complaining about how the World is, and more time down on our knees asking God to give us the strength to deal with it, and the knowledge of what to do to make it better.

Beautiful statement.

:clapping::clapping:

 

[Castello]

What can we learn from this? What matters is God’s will and we should strive to align our will with God’s and not the other way around. It is also apparent that doing God’s will may bring us great anguish. Doing what is right is not a cakewalk. So sure maybe you only want two kids, but how many kids does God want you to have? We need to spend less time complaining about how the World is, and more time down on our knees asking God to give us the strength to deal with it, and the knowledge of what to do to make it better.

Amen.

 

[VietCatholicMom]

We tend to call these “Bail-outs” “Deliverances”. I once felt a hand pushing me up while I was drowning in the American River while a bunch of us were swimming down it - The only other person near me had giving up on trying to save me. Later that year, I fell down a mountain I was treeplanting on and ended up with my ankle caught between a stump and the ground. That saved me (and my supervisor and our inspector) from a 250’ drop into a ravine. Two years later, I snuck away while someone was hijacking the bus I was riding. The next thing I knew, I was describing the hijacker to the 911 operator with the hijacker standing 2-3’ from me. Less than two years later, I looked down the barrel of a gun and got away with my life. Maybe 5 years after that, I got out of a situation by making a bunch of gangbangers believe I had a bomb.

In 2003, I was brought back to the Lord when an Orthodox Israeli Rabbi risked his life and went to the Western Wall in Jerusalem. A woman was literally walked back from death’s doorstep, because he placed a request in a crack in the wall I posted to an internet forum we were both on. The next year, I found myself talking to someone else on the same Forum who arranged to allow Israeli Jews to go to the Western Wall to pray for a member of my church who was having a series of what should have been fatal strokes. He still has some physical problems, but he’s almost completely recovered. 4 Years ago, I found myself saying exactly what needed to be said to keep 3 gangbangers from stabbing someone to death.

I have great fear for God and trust in Him just as greatly. I am in awe of your near-death experiences! I have not had any myself but I’m sure anytime I was saved from a problem situation, it was my Lord bailing me out.

 

[VietCatholicMom]

What can we learn from this? What matters is God’s will and we should strive to align our will with God’s and not the other way around. It is also apparent that doing God’s will may bring us great anguish. Doing what is right is not a cakewalk. So sure maybe you only want two kids, but how many kids does God want you to have? We need to spend less time complaining about how the World is, and more time down on our knees asking God to give us the strength to deal with it, and the knowledge of what to do to make it better.

Amen!

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

It does take great courage and faith to be so open! :heaven: