Lip Service and Souls

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Abeille

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I wasn’t sure exactly where to put this question.

What happens to a soul of a Catholic who dies while in a period of doubt after leaving the Catholic Church?

What happens to a soul of a Catholic who dies while in a period of doubt, but who continued to perform ‘lip service’?

When a Catholic (negligently) chooses not to attend mass and other holy days, it is a grave sin.
Is it also a grave sin if someone attends but does not give glory to God?
 
“What happens to a soul of a Catholic who dies while in a period of doubt after leaving the Catholic Church?”

If the individual has** left** the Catholic Church, he/she has committed apostasy and the soul will go to hell.

“What happens to a soul of a Catholic who dies while in a period of doubt, but who continued to perform ‘lip service’?”

If by ‘lip service’ you mean the individual is merely going through the motions without the intentions of living out his/her faith? This is also apostasy. There is some gray area to this question though. Doubt is a natural human emotion that all people have from time to time. Searching for the truth is a good and just act and is vital to our growth in the Catholic faith. Some would call this ‘wandering in the desert’, which happens to people of all faiths. As long as the individual is earnest in his prayer and seeking the truth, he has not committed a sin. Openly denouncing the faith or leaving the Church is apostasy.

“When a Catholic (negligently) chooses not to attend mass and other holy days, it is a grave sin.
Is it also a grave sin if someone attends but does not give glory to God?”

If one’s intention is to attend Mass but not give glory to God, he is no better than the Pharisees who stand on the street corners and pray in full view. So yes, it would be a grave sin. It is essentially denying God.

In all, these questions seem to point more to doubt than one who is purposely denying the faith or just “putting on a show.” Perhaps there is a feeling of wanting to leave the Church due to confusion/frustration or ? Would this be accurate?
 
Dear Abeille,

This scripture came to mind…

Apoc 3:16
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.

Our Lord reminds us of his hate of indifference. It’s better to have been ignorant than to have been taught the true faith and then just walk away.
 
While the verdict may seem to some to be cut and dried, Christ has told us not to judge the guilt of anyone before God.

However we must judge the actions, speech and writing against truth and then hope and pray that they may be open to God’s grace.
 
Abu said:
While the verdict may seem to some to be cut and dried, Christ has told us not to judge the guilt of anyone before God.

However we must judge the actions, speech and writing against truth and then hope and pray that they may be open to God’s grace.
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I entirely agree with you. The Church teaches that our ultimate authority is our conscience. It is absurd to claim we can force ourselves to believe something. We have a duty to examine it carefully and consider all the reasons on which it is based. If we then sincerely change our mind it would be wrong to continue to act as if we believe it is true. However it is not a question of doubt but of conviction. There are obviously very few cases when a Catholic becomes absolutely convinced that a doctrine is false but in those cases we are not justified in condemning that person. We are not expected to be infallible nor to have blind faith but to use our God-given power of reason and conscience…
 
tonyrey said:
I entirely agree with you. The Church teaches that our ultimate authority is our conscience. It is absurd to claim we can force ourselves to believe something. We have a duty to examine it carefully and consider all the reasons on which it is based. If we then sincerely change our mind it would be wrong to continue to act as if we believe it is true. However it is not a question of doubt but of conviction. There are obviously very few cases when a Catholic becomes absolutely convinced that a doctrine is false but in those cases we are not justified in condemning that person. We are not expected to be infallible nor to have blind faith but to use our God-given power of reason and conscience…
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The ultimate authority is our conscience? Is this the Agnostic Forum? On whose Authority are you speaking Tony the King?

Absurd that we must accept the teachings of Christ?

**St. Matthew 18
3 And said: Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. **

A child obeys and follows, no conditions. Jesus was always cut and dry, it’s better to stay on this side than to say there are no real standards, no doctrines that MUST be followed, other than the conviction of the conscience or the heart.

Whether the teachings/doctrines of the Church make you all giddy inside makes no difference, You must believe in the Apostles Creed, and the Sacred Deposit of Faith as handed down from the Apostles. You must renounce Satan, and all his evil ways.

Let us not be weak. Sunday Mass is still an obligation, as well as being free of mortal sin, to attain heaven. If you have a real obstacle to this, well, bring it to the attention of the priest as far as making it to mass, but to deny the faith knowingly, GRAVE SIN. That’s Bad, much prayer needed here.

May the Blessed Mother and St. Joseph pray for us and make us more like Jesus.
 
Here are some extracts from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.I hope this answers some of your questions.In the end we are at God’s mercy when we die.
www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/…/d.htm

2088 The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:

Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief. Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity. If deliberately cultivated doubt can lead to spiritual blindness.

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11

2093 Faith in God’s love encompasses the call and the obligation to respond with sincere love to divine charity. The first commandment enjoins us to love God above everything and all creatures for him and because of him.12

2094 One can sin against God’s love in various ways:
  • indifference neglects or refuses to reflect on divine charity; it fails to consider its prevenient goodness and denies its power.
  • ingratitude fails or refuses to acknowledge divine charity and to return him love for love.
  • lukewarmness is hesitation or negligence in responding to divine love; it can imply refusal to give oneself over to the prompting of charity.
  • acedia or spiritual sloth goes so far as to refuse the joy that comes from God and to be repelled by divine goodness.
  • hatred of God comes from pride. It is contrary to love of God, whose goodness it denies, and whom it presumes to curse as the one who forbids sins and inflicts punishments.
 
PapaBennySix said:
The ultimate authority is our conscience?
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In the depths of his conscience, man detects a law which he does not impose upon himself, but which holds him to obedience. Always summoning him to love good and avoid evil, the voice of conscience when necessary speaks to his heart: do this, shun that. For man has in his heart a law written by God; to obey it is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be judged. Conscience is the most secret core and sanctuary of a man. There he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his depths.
VATICAN II, Gaudium et spes §16.
 
Abeille:

Bonjour!

As was said here, we cannot predict outcomes solely on the events that we are familiar with. If the motive were simply a respectful fear of God, then we can say we have the initiation of a convert on the road to maturing Faith, (movement by degrees from a fear of God to a love of God). This is not the ideal course, God would prefer we love Him outright.

But something needs to be addressed when we say “lip service”. It has an air of disgruntled obedience simply for self preservation. This attitude would need to change to one of trust. Fear of God leaves the person in anticipation for the day, by the grace of God, He can warrant through love an enkindling of that flame of love.

It should be remembered God always responds to movement to Him, as we can do nothing without His help, and He longs to have us with Him in that life of eternity that is our heritage. The individual may experience a lukewarm response as well, has God is testing his resolve and sincerity. The delay is also a practice in sacrifice and prepares the soul for His grace.

It is puzzling that we can give the benefit of the doubt to people or to events, but when God, our creator, appeals to us for the slightest trust, we withhold.

One who goes to mass and is lukewarm has a reason to pray for the tiniest flame of love, just enough to carry him further into a relationship of trust. The iniative to pray gives glory to God, has it declares to the Universe the recognition of His Majesty, and inspires all to do the same. From then on he may be fortunate that the “cataracts”(St.John/C) that were covering his eyes of faith will now show a glimmer of light.

I would say to this person that he should continue to go to mass, but to take the initiative by praying, to dare to pray, to have the audacity to pray, which will hopefully throw out that thing that clouds the eyes from the light that impedes our spiritual relationship.

Rev 3:14-22 As a whole, in context, the message is to advance further and not to become complacent in the striving for Faith, and to set ambitions to faith,hope and charity, not the riches of this finite world which bring only temporary contentment and have the propensity to create gods of their own.

Also: Mat 7:21

AndyF
 
In all, these questions seem to point more to doubt than one who is purposely denying the faith or just “putting on a show.” Perhaps there is a feeling of wanting to leave the Church due to confusion/frustration or ? Would this be accurate?
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I was just curious what the teaching on this was.
I was curious where the line was drawn between ‘doubt’ and ‘rejection.’
 
Abielle

From Fr Thomas Dubay, Faith And Certitude, Ignatius Press, 1995:

“They attain truth who love it. One of the chief immoralities is an indifference to truth. It is worse than sexual perversion, said Jesus Himself. Those who reject His representatives are more guilty than perverted Sodom and Gomorrah (Mt 10:14-15). Indifference to truth is nothing less than and indifference to reality and to the Author of reality…One of the too little noticed traits of the saints is their utter commitment to truth.” (p 189-190).

Objective certitude “has three traits. First it is an enlightened assent. One not only knows something, but he also knows why he knows it, and he sees the objective reasons why it is so….[Second] certitude excludes a reasonable fear of being wrong…[Third] certitude is unchangeable. Because it is based on objective reality it is permanent.

Doubt and Difficulty
“A negative doubt is a close relation to ignorance. An opinion is an assent of the mind but with a well-founded fear that the opposite may be true.” With an unhealthy doubt, “a person suspends judgment even when the evidence is conclusive and completely adequate. This is skepticism, intellectual cowardice……A difficulty is a problem, a not-seeing how two realities fit together….a situation we do not yet understand and perhaps will never understand. It is a limitation on our knowledge, a passing or permanent limitation.”

John Henry Cardinal Newman said “ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt, as I understand the subject; difficulty and doubt are incommensurate.” (Apologia pro vita Sua). [Fr Dubay, op. cit. p 82-4].
 
Abeille said:
I was just curious what the teaching on this was.
I was curious where the line was drawn between ‘doubt’ and ‘rejection.’
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The Church does not attempt the impossible task of trying to fathom the depths of a person’s soul but takes the reasonable view that what we claim to (dis)believe reveals whether we accept, doubt or reject any particular belief. Of course if what we profess is incoherent or at odds with the way we live that is not the case…
 
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