List of things of respect, compassion, and sensitivity

[nqes7t9]

“Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies “must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity.” – Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, authored by then Joseph Card. Ratzinger:
Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons

from thread “Church Teaching on Same Sex Issues” forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=134749

Let’s make a list of things of respect, compassion, and sensitivity in this thread!

 

[RPRPsych]

Hmm, let me think…

1. Avoid crude / vulgar terms of abuse (“fag”, etc…) If “gay” and “lesbian” smack of identity politics to you, “homosexual” is a perfectly valid alternative.
2. Do not hold an individual homosexual person responsible for the political extremism of some of them. Do not start throwing words like “homoheresy” around unless said individual is actually in favour of a gay clergy, or something of that sort.
3. “Sodomite” is an unhelpful term, even if it’s in the Bible, because it refers (see Aquinas) to several forms of unnatural intercourse - and in our day and age, straights are as good at that as homosexuals are.
4. Remember that while the “gay rights movement” in the West is often loud, crude, in-your-face, aggressive and (implicitly or explicitly) anti-Catholic, homosexuals in other parts of the world still have it hard. Ostracism, abuse and suicide are very much a part of their reality.
5. Distinguish between homosexual acts and an individual with homosexual attractions / tendencies, who may often be conflicted or ambivalent about acting on said impulses.
6. Don’t forget that in all those passages from the Pauline Epistles where homosexual sin is anathematized, a long list of other sins are also included. Homosexuals are sinners, but so are all of us (unless your name is Mary, Mother of the Saviour. )
7. Don’t get carried away with the “sensitivity” bit. Sensitivity is a good quality when dealing with individuals, but not with ideologies, political agendas, or anti-Christian bigotry.
8. Pat Robertson and Dinesh D’Souza are not good role models. Gays did not cause 9/11, and neither did Britney Spears.
9. Pray for such individuals frequently and fervently. Change doesn’t happen overnight. Even Saint Augustine required 20 years (if I’m not mistaken) of his mother’s prayers to give up “heterosexual” sin.
10. Advocate for good access to health care and mental health services for homosexuals, especially in those parts of the world where this is often not the case. Church-based organizations can combine these with pastoral work.
11. Because they are either unhappy, conflicted or led astray by identity politics and vote-bank manipulation, homosexuals may be confrontational and angry in their interactions with you. Do not reply in kind. Speak the truth, but don’t start pulling a Buju Banton on them.
12. Support scientific research into the possible biological and psychosocial determinants of homosexual attraction and behaviour, ideally free from any pre-conceived political agenda. Forget Charles Socarides or the “born this way” crowd. When facts do not fit an old paradigm, a new one is needed.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Additional to:

No. 6: St Paul writes “such were some of you” not “are”. The addressees were benefitting from catechumenate, regeneration, the indwelling Jesus and the experience of fruits of the Holy Spirit gifts. St Paul never harangued anyone. least of all the general public. He always tailored what he said to where people were really coming from. People who come across Church teachings nowadays have probably not benefitted from these things, or not sufficiently. We must hope that Church teachings will be presented in appropriate formats and pray for more catechising and genuine evangelising.

No.12: We should advocate for well-designed research. Biologically, I wonder whether if one has been “pregnant with one’s own twin” (in all likelihood an imperceptible cyst, that may have disappeared, would have been the only phenomenon of it) and one is longing for the original closeness. Psychosocially, it has occasionally been pointed out an imbalance between the relationship of one’s mother and her brother (probably implicating their own parents) may relate to various emotional imbalances. In both the cases I have hypothesised (if one could so much as identify them), there probably isn’t a terribly close correlation. However, like other probable “causes” their effect will have been strengthened in recent decades by over-exposure of children to television by parents, because television programmes depict a too narrow image of masculinity and femininity, reinforcing stereotypes unnecessarily, and time spent watching is not spent in actively being parented. Indeed this is probably the strongest factor overall.

 

[RPRPsych]

Additional to:

No. 6: St Paul writes “such were some of you” not “are”. The addressees were benefitting from catechumenate, regeneration, the indwelling Jesus and the experience of fruits of the Holy Spirit gifts. St Paul never harangued anyone. least of all the general public. He always tailored what he said to where people were really coming from. People who come across Church teachings nowadays have probably not benefitted from these things, or not sufficiently. We must hope that Church teachings will be presented in appropriate formats and pray for more catechising and genuine evangelising.

No.12: We should advocate for well-designed research. Biologically, I wonder whether if one has been “pregnant with one’s own twin” (in all likelihood an imperceptible cyst, that may have disappeared, would have been the only phenomenon of it) and one is longing for the original closeness. Psychosocially, it has occasionally been pointed out an imbalance between the relationship of one’s mother and her brother (probably implicating their own parents) may relate to various emotional imbalances. In both the cases I have hypothesised (if one could so much as identify them), there probably isn’t a terribly close correlation. However, like other probable “causes” their effect will have been strengthened in recent decades by over-exposure of children to television by parents, because television programmes depict a too narrow image of masculinity and femininity, reinforcing stereotypes unnecessarily, and time spent watching is not spent in actively being parented. Indeed this is probably the strongest factor overall.

Agreed, especially with No. 6. The possibility of change is something that is often forgotten these days.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

When St Paul used the verbs “were” and “are” he was referring to current doers of deeds, rather than permanent identities, least of all for spiritual purposes. I.e the reasons for wanting to change one’s ways of doing - if one wished - came through one’s own soul (as the Holy Spirit moved one to seek conversion). Also in those days the status of Christian was mostly considered less glamorous.

 

[Lion_IRC]

Hmm, let me think…

1. Avoid crude / vulgar terms of abuse (“fag”, etc…)

Shouldn’t we avoid ALL terms of abuse - not just the ‘crude’ terms of abuse.
Abuse is abuse.

…the “gay rights movement” in the West is often loud, crude, in-your-face, aggressive and (implicitly or explicitly) anti-Catholic,

Pat Robertson and Dinesh D’Souza are not good role models.

I like Dinesh D’Souza.
Am I wrong?

…Gays did not cause 9/11

I thought this thread was meant to talk about positive uplifting and optimistic things.
Do we really need to point out such things to our fellow catholics like the inflammatory remark in the example you raised?

1. Advocate for good access to health care and mental health services for homosexuals, especially in those parts of the world where this is often not the case.

Absolutely. It is a little known fact that the Catholic Church is the WORLDS LARGEST charity provider of health care to HIV/AIDS sufferers.
Now thats respect, compassion, and sensitivity!

 

[RPRPsych]

Shouldn’t we avoid ALL terms of abuse - not just the ‘crude’ terms of abuse.
Abuse is abuse.

Agreed, I worded my sentence inaccurately. Good point.

I was making a contrast between the “activist wing” of the movement and the individual sufferer.

I like Dinesh D’Souza.
Am I wrong?

No, opinions can always vary legitimately. However, folks like him are a dime a dozen over here, except that they write stuff more along the lines of “What’s Great About Yoga” and “Indian National Congress 2016: The Great Deception” Also, it’s hard to take someone seriously when they complain about lax morals in the West, but then fail to set an example in their own lives.

I thought this thread was meant to talk about positive uplifting and optimistic things.
Do we really need to point out such things to our fellow catholics like the inflammatory remark in the example you raised?

I’m merely pointing out that in this case, we Catholics should avoid the excesses of some of our Evangelical brethren. Homosexual behaviour is sinful; it has to be dealt with as such, in its own right. There is no need to drag the unrelated issue of terrorism into it except in those cases (such as that of Omar Mateen, who appears to have had homosexual tendencies himself) where they do appear to be related.

Absolutely. It is a little known fact that the Catholic Church is the WORLDS LARGEST charity provider of health care to HIV/AIDS sufferers.
Now thats respect, compassion, and sensitivity!

Exactly.

 

[nqes7t9]

RPRPsych: wow. Those are some good posts. Thank you.

I am really not a good Catholic Christian.

Vic, thank you also. Do you really think the “unborn twin in a cyst” is a reason for homosexuality? How did you come up with or how did you find this idea?

I read “unborn twin in a cyst” in another of your posts elsewhere & I thought you were alluding to the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Sorry about that.

 

[RPRPsych]

RPRPsych: wow. Those are some good posts. Thank you.

I am really not a good Catholic Christian.

Most of those things are easier said than done! I assure you I’m no saint either.

Vic, thank you also. Do you really think the “unborn twin in a cyst” is a reason for homosexuality? How did you come up with or how did you find this idea?

I read “unborn twin in a cyst” in another of your posts elsewhere & I thought you were alluding to the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

I’m curious about this also. I haven’t come across any references to this in the standard medical literature (though there’s some interesting work on genetics and epigenetics coming out lately). Do you have a source for this, Vic?

 

[nqes7t9]

So, RPRPsych, I see a wide range of things in your list of 12: we have #1, which is about not using words like “f*g”, and then we have things like #4, which says that ostracism, abuse and suicide are still parts of the person with SSA.

I think I’ve pretty much got the “don’t say f*g” part down. I am not even sure I have ever used that word, spoken aloud. In terms of my inner thoughts I’m a bit weaker, I have to confess to thinking that word sometimes.

But what can I do about #4? How can I help prevent people from committing suicide in non-Western countries? I live in a Western country (USA). It seems like a big jump from not saying “f*” or “sodomite” (a term I’ve used quite a bit in my other posts, although I meant it in the dictionary sense of the term) to dealing with suicide. On the other hand, maybe it’s not such a jump.

Also, how can we implement #10 and #12? I have never heard of organizations dedicated to scientific research on SSA, or an organization dedicated to getting healthcare to folks with SSA.