Little Rock, Big Rock question

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There are a lot of hopeless variations of this anti-paronomasia theory. For example
b1) The argument that if the evangelist Matthew had wanted to maintain the paronomasia it would be more logical the use of Petros/petroi because is a better preservation of the paronomasia and elude the problem of the gender ‘Petros/petra’. But this is only another basseless and contrived protestant contra-argument. The reason is easy. Never, in the NT ‘petros’ is used to refer any kind of object, rock, stone etc (0 times). The other side of the coin: Always ‘Petros’ in the NT is refered to the apostle Peter (156 times). So the use of petros or its dative petroi to refer rock, stone,etc… although possible, is inexistent in the evangelists and the rest of NT writers. At the contrary ‘petra’ appears 15 times as meaning ‘rock’. This is sufficient to refute the theory that Petros/petroi is more suitable that Petros/petra because there is no evidence that apostles used the word ‘petros’ to refer anything except Peter, but there are 15 evidences that they used ‘petra’ to refer any kind of rock. Petros/petroi cannot elude the gender problem first because there is not evidence that apostles used, at least, in the NT the word ‘petros’ to refer objects as rock or similar, and second because Matthew uses the ‘Petros/petra’ duet to resolve efficiently the conflict. The fact is that, although ‘petros’ is synonymous of ‘petra’ in greek the NT’ writers always prefer to use the word ‘petra’ to refer an object, rock and Petros to refer the apostle. That’s unquestionable. The consideration that Petros/petroi preserve better the paronomasia than Petros/petra is a bizarre argument because the later pair builds a paronomasia equally functional than the former and the former is not more effective as paronomasia than the later. Only Petros/petros would be a perfect match to ‘Kepha/kepha’ but that’s no the case.

Therefore the ‘Petros/petra’ is the better and correct election for this passage. And that’s the only reason why in Matthew 16:18 appears ‘Petros/petra’ and not ‘Petros/petroi’

c) The last recurse that protestant use to deny the original paronomasia is another weird argument. They claim that the repetion of the word ‘kepha’ in the two instances of the original aramaic breaks the pun or paronomasia. The reason is because the same word with the identical meaning is not a paronomasia. So ‘kepha/kepha’ is not a paronomasia but a redundancy and consequently the original text in aramaic has to be different. The theory is correct but there is a serious problem. First of all: It’s false both ‘kepha’ have identical meaning in this biblical passage. The full meaning of a word doesn’t have only intrinsic aspects, its real meaning comes with the context and with the referents. Let’s remember: The first instance is refered to the proper name of the apostle Simon (Barjona). It’s not refered ‘prima facie’ to any kind of object, rock, stone, etc… The second instance is refered to an object (a rock or a stone). The first instance, i.e., the apostle Peter, achieves the meaning of rock ‘mediate’ (by means of) the paronomasia, is the wordplay what links semanticly both instances. So, contrary to the protestant defective reasoning the kepha/kepha is here not a redundancy but a perfect paronomasia, a brilliant, even a superlative paronomasia. Is not Peter faith but all Peter (faith, person and name) who is the rock of the Church by delegation of Christ’s divine decree

As I say in the beginning human interpretations have always solid and weak points. That’s the problem of any fallible opinion (mine, yours, etc…). But you know? The conflict of divergences cannot be resolved by means of our fallible interpretations. Yes, from a human perspective we have good tools to achieve plausible explanations of many things, even to interpret the Bible. For example, in this issue, if apostle Peter is or not the rock upon Jesus built His Church we have a lot of valid testimonies. I personally prefer to trust in** scholars that have a deep knowledge of apostolic teaching** about this issue. And these scholars are not Luther, neither Calvin, much less me or you or any modern expert in Bible. The scholars who were immersed in the apostolic teachings were the Church Fathers of the Apostolic Age. To make matters better those Church Fathers not study greek koine and get a degree in Classic Languages as some of our contermporaries scholars, they lived in greek koine, they were raised in greek koine, and as we would say in Spain: “No aprendieron el griego koine. Lo mamaron” (They didn’t learn greek koine, they sucked (nursed) it). They are the real experts in greek koine to interpret the Scriptures and the more difficult passages in their mother language. Do you want to know if they say that Peter is the rock upon Christ built His Church? The answer is yes. This fact is irrefutable because is verifiable.

But do you know? Not even their judgements and knowledge guarantees inerrancy.** The only that guarantees inerrancy in the interpretation of Sacred Scriptures is the infalibility that Christ promised to His apostolic Church, His judgement is infallible whereas our interprations disagree and are fallible**. That’s why Christ has given to His Church a divine power “whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven” (Matthew 18:15-18). Its infallibility nature is transmitted by apostolic sucession,and its infallibility teaching remains in its Sacred Tradition and in its Magisterium. That’s the irrefutable reason that I can say with absolute certainty that Peter is the rock upon Christ has built His Church.
 
I think some level of agreement can be reached. Peter’s confession of faith (you are the Messiah, Son of the living God) hinges on what the Father revealed to him. What the Father revealed to Peter goes far beyond the tiny proof text we have. It is profound and mysterious. Indeed, Peter’s faith is an absolute component, but that is like saying water is wet. So I think we can agree that the Church is built on Peter’s faith or confession, but it can be both/and, not absolutely one and only one perspective as presented by objectors. If they are unwilling to meet us part way and ignore Protestant exegesis of the text, this debate will go on. I favor Peter as Rock as a primary interpretation, while there is no reason we can’t hold his confession of faith as the rock as a secondary interpretation.
 
I see what you say and although I don’t agree with your opinion I have to say your opinion, as mine, as many other opinions often have solid and weak points. That’s the problem of any fallible opinion.
It seems like you wish to present a lot of information to refute things I haven’t said? I’m really not sure where you’re going with all this.

I am curious about your reaction on the 1Corinthians passage in Syriac, which was the main point of your previous post. And maybe you have some examples in Palestinian Aramaic we could look at?
 
My favorite “tactic”, as you have termed it, is to provide information from reputable sources in support of the Catholic position. This is particularly effective when the sources are “hostile witnesses” - folks who can’t be accused of sympathy for the Catholic cause. Like Protestant Bible scholars and theologians.
I think the basic problem with your approach is your assumption any “Protestant” scholar would be acceptable and considered knowledgeable and authoritative to all Protestants. This is a mistake made often by those at Catholic Answers, who use the term “Protestant” but they actually mean “Evangelical/Fundamentalist”.

Just to try to help in understanding, I’m going to divide Protestants into two groups for these purposes. The first would be fundamentalists (including many but not all Evangelicals) who basically don’t wish to engage historical/critical Bible scholarship or who do so very selectively. The second would be those who are on board with historical/critical biblical research. I’m of the second type. For me, you can quote fundamentalists all day long and they will never serve as your desired “hostile witness” because fundamentalists reject the basic premises of modern Biblical scholarship and thus simply aren’t credible as modern Bible scholars. They aren’t the reputable source you’re looking for. Also, quoting research from more than say, 20-30 years ago isn’t going to be effective either. As a scientific enterprise, modern Bible scholarship values the newest, more recent information because we are learning more and more about the Bible and its underlying languages all the time. If you quote something written in the 1880s, someone on board with modern Bible scholarship will think you misunderstand the entire enterprise of Biblical Studies.

Quoting a knowledgeable Catholic Bible scholar, say like a Joseph Fitzmyer (someone who is not an apologist or biblical theologian) would carry far more weight with someone who is on board with modern Biblical scholarship than would a truckload of quotes from random Baptists.
 
It seems like you wish to present a lot of information to refute things I haven’t said? I’m really not sure where you’re going with all this.

I am curious about your reaction on the 1Corinthians passage in Syriac, which was the main point of your previous post. And maybe you have some examples in Palestinian Aramaic we could look at?
Nah. Actually, in my later messages I haven’t even made any comment or reaction about 1Corinthians 10. When I said: “I see what you say and although I don’t agree with your opinion I have to say your opinion, as mine, as many other opinions often have solid and weak points. That’s the problem of any fallible opinion” I only wanted to recognize and praise that there are solid points in your comments about the issue, but there are also weak ones. For example, your consideration that kepha is usually a movible stone is correct and undeniable. There are many examples in the NT. But my first comment in the thread wasn’t adressed to demonstrate that kepha cannot be a movible stone rather that your assumption that "a kepha is hardly by definition “a big immovable rock” is wrong, because there are examples in the NT that refute this assertion.

In fact when I finished that first comment saying: *“If Kepha in aramaic is what you assert not only Peter is a movible stone (not a rock), also the Church is built on a movible stone (not upon a rock and therefore upon unstable foundation) and Jesus, the Messiah is a movible stone, not a strength rock” *I was stressing the wrong notion that the Church has been built by Christ upon a movible hand-sized rock or small stone and not on a solid foundation. Similarly I was stressing the wrong conclusion that Jesus is a movible hand-sized rock or small stone and not a strength stone or rock. Perhaps your opinions of the Church and Christ are different of mine but when I read Matthew 16:18 and 1Cor 10 I read with the perspective that the Church is built on a solid ground (a strength stone, a rock, not a small stone) and that Christ, the Messiah, is a solid stone, a cornerstone of His Church, not a hand-sized rock that cannot support nothing. This doesn’t mean, absolutely, that I’m denying that kapha/kepha in many other Bible passages can be a small stone, this only means that in those two passages (and in others) kepha cannot be understand as a “something you can hold in your hand, something you can use as a tool, or something you can throw at someone” (sic). That’s a wrong understanding of the meaning of ‘kepha’ that doesn’t fit with all those passages, but evidently does fit with many other ones.

Is evident that this claim:
A kepha is hardly by definition “a big immovable rock.” While it’s certainly not “pebble,” a kepha is something you can hold in your hand, something you can use as a tool, or something you can throw at someone and expect to do some damage.
is untenable, it fails (and is refuted) in all these passages:

meaning as pillar:
Galatians 2:9
ܘܟܕ ܝܕܥܘ ܛܝܒܘܬܐ ܕܐܬܝܗܒܬ ܠܝ ܝܥܩܘܒ ܘܟܐܦܐ ܘܝܘܚܢܢ ܗܢܘܢ ܕܡܤܬܒܪܝܢ ܗܘܘ ܕܐܝܬܝܗܘܢ ܥܡܘܕܐ ܝܡܝܢܐ ܕܫܘܬܦܘܬܐ ܝܗܒܘ ܠܝ ܘܠܒܪܢܒܐ ܕܚܢܢ ܒܥܡܡܐ ܘܗܢܘܢ ܒܓܙܘܪܬܐ*

“and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised”*

meaning as a great rock, perhaps a mountain:
Matthew 27:60
ܘܣܳܡܶܗ ܒ݁ܒ݂ܶܝܬ݂ ܩܒ݂ܽܘܪܳܐ ܚܰܕ݂݈ܬ݂ܳܐ ܕ݁ܺܝܠܶܗ ܕ݁ܰܢܩܺܝܪ ܒ݁ܟ݂ܺܐܦ݂ܳܐ ܘܥܰܓ݁ܶܠܘ ܟ݁ܺܐܦ݂ܳܐ ܪܰܒ݁ܬ݂ܳܐ ܐܰܪܡܺܝܘ ܥܰܠ ܬ݁ܰܪܥܳܐ ܕ݁ܒ݂ܶܝܬ݂ ܩܒ݂ܽܘܪܳܐ ܘܶܐܙܰܠܘ
And Joseph took the body, and wrapped it in a clean linen shroud, and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn in the* rock**; and he rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb, and departed.*”

To note that precisely in this verse kapha has two acceptations that are contrary to your assumptions: a huge and immovable rock like a mound or even a mountain, and a great movible stone.

and of course there are all those passages where Jesus is called the stone rejected by the builders what has become the cornerstone. (Matthew 21:42 and its cross references)

Pd: Respect my later comments I have to say that they were an explanation of my position about Matthew 18:16 not about 1Cor 10. I quote the part of your comment that you make mention Syriac Aramaic is a different dialect than Palestinian Aramaic to point that this objection has not much relevance to the issue to the kepha is a little rock or a big rock on Matthew 18.

I recognize in those comments I’ve turned off too much from the topic, and of course those two comments are my personal disgression about kepha-Matthew 18 not a refutation of your comments. My apologies
 
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