Liturgical Abuses

[BubbaGump]

I have noticed some rather serious liturgical abuses, and quite a few smaller ones that leave me feeling angry and uncomfortable after mass.

I am a recent revert and know that my (name removed by moderator)ut has little ‘sway’ – so I’m not sure how to proceed with this. The priest has a very strong opinions, and his mind is not easily changed. I have expertise in certain other non-theological areas, and have flatly been told I’m wrong. So, I am sure that when it comes to GERM or theological issues I will have even less strength in argument.

What kinds of abuse? Mostly minor things…but at least one issue that I am 99% sure is a severe violation in the order of the mass.

The biggest abuse is after consecration during the sign of peace, the priest, and other priests in my diocese, leave the alter to shake hands/sign of peace to people in the congregation. It is my understanding that this is a forbidden practice.

There have also been minor ‘word tweakings’ that take place. Not during consecration, but during opening and closing prayers.

Less of an abuse, but still very unsettling for me is the music. I can’t sing, or play an instrument well enough to become a music minister, so I don’t feel comfortable complaining. I can’t be part of the solution, so complaining about the problem just makes me a loud mouth. I also realize that a very small parish has a small pool to pull from. So the substitution of recordings sometimes is necessary. However, “My God as an Awesome God” and other pop-christian songs just do not fit in the majesty of the mass.

An even lesser is hand holding during the Lords prayer. I’m uncomfortable with it.

I don’t want to leave this particular parish. Personally I like the priest, and the people there. But at the same time I do not feel it is feeding my soul. I have no real ‘sway’ to change what is happening, and some of what is happening is common in this area.

To make matters worse, my wife has just stared RCIA (3 classes in) and I think that she is getting a very milk-toast version of catholicism. The material being uses is so watered down its sad. She has even commented that the handouts are incomplete. Now she is looking at me for guidance.

I don’t worship the church, I worship God – I just don’t want to be a parish shopper because I don’t like what I see… I just don’t see a way to solve these problems.

Pray for me…I need help with this one…

 

[scylla]

The only thing to do is be strong, be a man and take up the challenge. Get involved it might take even years of work as some of the hippies are really entrenched and in charge. They sometimes don’t know really they are doing wrong, they are just being friendly and relevant to the culture. So go easy on them and participate in ways to bring about faithful adherence to worshipping God with reverence.

I go to a very progressive parish with many problems in a diocese that seems to be going down the toilet liturgically, but there are some good things happening and we need all the faithful Catholics we can get. Just because a Bishop might act g-y, it doesn’t mean that we should all leave, it just means we need to pray for him and help everyone get stronger in the faith including the Bishop. Support everyone even the people causing problems, they might just need to know that true Catholicism can exist and it just isn’t a place to socialize, but to be fiercely dedicated to Christ.

God Bless,
Scylla

 

[CalCath]

The only thing to do is be strong, be a man and take up the challenge. Get involved it might take even years of work **as some of the hippies are really entrenched and in charge. ** They sometimes don’t know really they are doing wrong, they are just being friendly and relevant to the culture. So go easy on them and participate in ways to bring about faithful adherence to worshipping God with reverence.

I go to a very progressive parish with many problems in a diocese that seems to be going down the toilet liturgically, but there are some good things happening and we need all the faithful Catholics we can get. Just because a Bishop might act g-y, it doesn’t mean that we should all leave, it just means we need to pray for him and help everyone get stronger in the faith including the Bishop. Support everyone even the people causing problems, they might just need to know that true Catholicism can exist and it just isn’t a place to socialize, but to be fiercely dedicated to Christ.

God Bless,
Scylla

That’s both ignorant and rude.

 

[CalCath]

…and quite a few smaller ones that leave me feeling angry and uncomfortable after mass.

The biggest abuse is after consecration during the sign of peace, the priest, and other priests in my diocese, leave the alter to shake hands/sign of peace to people in the congregation.

There have also been minor ‘word tweakings’ that take place. Not during consecration, but during opening and closing prayers.

Less of an abuse, but still very unsettling for me is the music.

So the substitution of recordings sometimes is necessary. However, “My God as an Awesome God” and other pop-christian songs just do not fit in the majesty of the mass.

An even lesser is hand holding during the Lords prayer. I’m uncomfortable with it.

If you are “angry” about the above, you do need to seek some help. If the priest leaves the sanctuary at the kiss of peace, go look-up the paragraph forbidding it and gently make him aware of it and then pray for him.

I have no idea what “word tweakings” you mean. I would suggest the same advice as above. If they are serious (if he’s monkeying around with the words of institution) write the bishop if he dosen’t respond – and pray.

I don’t believe recorded music is EVER allowed during the Mass…

You don’t like to hold hand? Then don’t, and don’t pay any attention to your neighbors.

You should try to spend less time being angry and more time communicating and praying for your pastor.

 

[scylla]

That’s both ignorant and rude.

I guess it is an insult to the hippies, I know of one who is quite a good guy. I agree I am a little ignorant as I shouldn’t have blanketed all hippies as disrespectful to God.
Disrespect to our Lord is quite an evil sin and I am sorry I associated hippies with people who willingly disrespect the GIRM and Christ. If we were under the Old Covenant, God would have killed these people, we should just pray for them and nicely promote fidelity.
I really don’t think the things mentioned are as bad as the stuff that goes on at LA religious congress. I wouldn’ t get so worked up but don’t allow your conscience to be killed by small abuses.

Scylla

 

[johnnykins]

If you are “angry” about the above, you do need to seek some help. If the priest leaves the sanctuary at the kiss of peace, go look-up the paragraph forbidding it and gently make him aware of it and then pray for him.

I have no idea what “word tweakings” you mean. I would suggest the same advice as above. If they are serious (if he’s monkeying around with the words of institution) write the bishop if he dosen’t respond – and pray.

I don’t believe recorded music is EVER allowed during the Mass…

You don’t like to hold hand? Then don’t, and don’t pay any attention to your neighbors.

You should try to spend less time being angry and more time communicating and praying for your pastor.

It strikes me that anger in its proper place is a good thing. Why the Lord Himself took a whip to the money changers in the Temple - with the Ark right there and the priests preforming their functions.

This common refrain (such as the above post) that suggests that those who complain about abuse are in the wrong if they get angry is just plain wrong. Those who do not follow the rubrics are wrong - and that needs to be kept front and center. Indeed, if someone gets angry in a sinful way due to the hubris of those ignoring the rubrics, those who refuse to follow the rubrics are the cause and occasion of the sin of others - I believe that is the definition of scandal.

Being angry in the circumstances described is a good thing - even a Godly thing - as Christ himself got angry at abuses in the Temple.

 

[benedictgal]

It strikes me that anger in its proper place is a good thing. Why the Lord Himself took a whip to the money changers in the Temple - with the Ark right there and the priests preforming their functions.

This common refrain (such as the above post) that suggests that those who complain about abuse are in the wrong if they get angry is just plain wrong. Those who do not follow the rubrics are wrong - and that needs to be kept front and center. Indeed, if someone gets angry in a sinful way due to the hubris of those ignoring the rubrics, those who refuse to follow the rubrics are the cause and occasion of the sin of others - I believe that is the definition of scandal.

Being angry in the circumstances described is a good thing - even a Godly thing - as Christ himself got angry at abuses in the Temple.

I am currently taking a class on the New Testament which is taught by a priest, who, for all practical purposes is a bishop without a mitre. He had taught a course last semester on the Old Testament. He told us that one of the biggest problems Ancient Israel had was that it tended to disregard proper worship. When
the Lord had given His people norms for worship, they followed them with initial enthusiasm, but then let things go by the wayside.

Fast forward it to the time of Jesus when he took whips and chords and cleansed out the temple. The area Jesus cleaned out was the Court of the Gentiles, the space reserved for Gentile converts to pray.

The priest said that, often times, our liturgies have come to the point that perhaps Our Lord needed to come down and clean house. The priest has tended to do some of it himself, especially when he sees the altar used for holding things that should not even be on it.

I think the bottom line is that we’ve probably reached a point where “zeal” for the Father’s house no longer consumes us. In another thread I noted and quoted then-Cardinal Ratzinger’s observation about the “dictatorship of relativism”. I regretfully suspect that this dictatorship has crept up in our liturgies as well, where one’s idea of music is as good as another, where rubrics are created at whim and where the creative is just as good as the fixed.

I think if anyone has already begun to take the whips and chords out, it’s Benedict. Thank God we have him as our pope.

 

[Online_Knight]

Man, this stuff is really starting to sour me! I have been doing my best to help our priest to correct his abuses, omissions, and changes. See my previous thread- forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=176450

I have written letters to both the priest and the bishop, only to see a slight improvement for a few masses followed by a total return to the old improper ways. I really don’t know where to turn next. I am saddened that nothing is being done about this. Priest shortage or not, these things cannot be brushed aside.

Perhaps the biggest thing that hurts me about the whole situation is that it distracts me from what I should be 100% focused on during the mass.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Perhaps the biggest thing that hurts me about the whole situation is that it distracts me from what I should be 100% focused on during the mass.

Perhaps the best thing to do now is pray. Both for the priest, and mostly for yourself for qualities such as patience. I’m not a liturgical purist, so it would take a lot to bother me as much as (what I see as) minor issues bother you. It has happened though. And in those cases, I think all you can do is remind yourself that Jesus is on the altar and that’s all that really matters.

 

[feargalmac]

Man, this stuff is really starting to sour me! I have been doing my best to help our priest to correct his abuses, omissions, and changes. See my previous thread- forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=176450

I have written letters to both the priest and the bishop, only to see a slight improvement for a few masses followed by a total return to the old improper ways. I really don’t know where to turn next. I am saddened that nothing is being done about this. Priest shortage or not, these things cannot be brushed aside.

Perhaps the biggest thing that hurts me about the whole situation is that it distracts me from what I should be 100% focused on during the mass.

I followed the thread above and find my own position similar to yours. I decided pray for our priest and ensure my kids are aware of his errors. I try to do this without running the priest down. It’s hard but I have to remember that our priests, in general, deserve our respect.
Love the sinner, hate the sin!

 

[BostonMyrtleBea]

I have noticed some rather serious liturgical abuses, and quite a few smaller ones that leave me feeling angry and uncomfortable after mass…

I have a similar post in a thread I started “So Angry I Skipped Eucharist.” Some responses were pretty nasty towards me, but most seem to agree that there are infractions of liturgical law going on. I thought I’d share some of the good advice I also got. Some have suggested I

seek a different time or parish
pray more at home (make a special place for prayer)
write a letter to the Bishop

I have to agree on the hand-holding thing. Though if someone else holds hands, it doesn’t bother me. But please don’t spread out across the aisle and grab my hand in an assumption that I’m okay with this Not that this helps, but I hear what you’re saying.