Liturgical language help!

[Claudius]

I have been learning the Liturgical languages of the Catholic Church and I keep finding contradictory information. Could some one please help me out?

Which version of Slavonic (Old Church Slavonic or Church Slavonic) is used in Byzantine Catholic Churches? Are there more then one dialect of this and if so, which do I learn, which is used by Catholics specifically?

The dialect of Coptic that is used of Liturgy is called Bohairic. However, there are two competing pronunciations. The Orthodox use an improvised pronunciation that makes the letters value closer to Greek and the latest revision hasn’t really taken root. However, these pronunciations changes happened after the Captic Catholic Church came back into communion with Rome. Which pronunciation do Coptic Catholics use when speaking the Coptic Language? I am asking specifically about Catholics only.

Are there any differences in the version of Ge’ez used by the Ethiopian Orthodox and the Ethiopian Catholics and if so, what is it?

More to the point, how can you tell what is the subject versus the object in a sentence in Ge’ez language?

This brings me to Syriac and Aramaic. I can not tell in either language which word is the object and which is the subject. How can you tell these two cases apart? If anyone knows or can point me in the correct direction, PLEASE DO SO. I keep finding small amounts of info on an L- preposition or an -A suffix but nothing specific.

One last bit, Is Aramaic a different language from Syriac or are they really the same langaue? Are they mutually intelligible? I know they currently have different writting systems but others have told me that even though the letters are different, they are still spelling the same things. Is Aramaic just the older form of Syriac or do they both come from a common source?

AND lastly, where can I find a good resource for learning these language the way the Catholic Church speakes them? I have a kind priest from Armenia teaching me Classical Armenian over Email but where Do I look for information on the other language, Like Catholic Greek language, or Catholic Syriac? I fear going to an Orthodox to get the informaiton because I don’t want to have to unlearn stuff and relearn the correct way like I had to do with Latin going from “college professor” pronunciation to Catholic pronunciation.

Any help you guys can give me is appreciated in advance.

 

[patrick457]

Can’t answer all your questions, but here’s my shot at two:

Are there any differences in the version of Ge’ez used by the Ethiopian Orthodox and the Ethiopian Catholics and if so, what is it?

I don’t expect any difference in Ge’ez as spoken by Ethiopian Orthodox and Ethiopic Catholics as Ge’ez survives only as a liturgical language (Amharic is the language presently used by Ethiopians. Someone might correct me on this, though.

One last bit, Is Aramaic a different language from Syriac or are they really the same langaue? Are they mutually intelligible? I know they currently have different writting systems but others have told me that even though the letters are different, they are still spelling the same things. Is Aramaic just the older form of Syriac or do they both come from a common source?

Which Aramaic do you mean here? There are a lot of Aramaic languages and dialects (For example, in the 1st century Galileans spoke *Galilean Aramaic *while the Samaritans used the distinctive Samaritan Aramaic, plus Old Judean which is the dialect used in Judea and Jerusalem; these are known collectively as Judeo-Aramaic, which in itself is a version of standard Aramaic); if you mean the Aramaic Jesus spoke (Galilean Aramaic), I expect that it is quite mutual, but not exactly the same as Syriac (Since Syriac is from the Eastern Aramaic family while Galilean Aramaic is probably part of the Western Aramaic family).

Syriac started as a local dialect of Aramaic spoken in Northern Meposotamia (though it had started to become distinct from Imperial Aramaic by the 1st century BC-1st century AD) before it became the major language in the Middle East, Central Asia and Southern Indian Christian Churches. This was before the dawn of Islam and the rise of Arabic, mind you.

Liturgically, Chaldeans and Assyrians use Eastern Middle Syriac while the Maronites and the Syriacs use the Western dialect of it.

 

[Patchunky]

I have been learning the Liturgical languages of the Catholic Church and I keep finding contradictory information. Could some one please help me out?

Which version of Slavonic (Old Church Slavonic or Church Slavonic) is used in Byzantine Catholic Churches? Are there more then one dialect of this and if so, which do I learn, which is used by Catholics specifically?

No, there is no “dialect” in OCS ( Old Church Slavonic). What’s used in the Russian church is the same as is used in the Ruthenian church and what’s used in the Serbian church.

Please do NOT confuse OCS with modern Russian or Serbian or Ukrainian or Slovak which is also used by Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches in place of OCS.

Hope this helps…

 

[Claudius]

No, there is no “dialect” in OCS ( Old Church Slavonic). What’s used in the Russian church is the same as is used in the Ruthenian church and what’s used in the Serbian church.

Please do NOT confuse OCS with modern Russian or Serbian or Ukrainian or Slovak which is also used by Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches in place of OCS.

Hope this helps…

I am only puzzled because I can’t seem to be able to find out about the correct lanague. I have been looking into Slavonic and different web sites show what look like completely different declention systems. If I can’t be sure of the ending for a particular case, then I have no hope to understand the sentence. Both are showing me four declentions but the endings, particularly for the accusative case, are different.

For instance:
the word for man on one page is spelled (I am aproximating based on shape)

mѸЖz, mѸЖa, mѸЖg, mѸЖa, mѸЖemz, mѸЖh Versus
mѪЖb, mѪЖa, mѪЖg, mѪЖa, mѪЖemb, mѪЖИ

On top of that, the second letter in the second set is used as the accusative marker in feminine nouns on one page but this letter doesn’t even exist on the othe page. I really need some help to sort this out.

 

[Paul2274]

Well I will not be of much help here… way over my head and humble enough to admit it. However, I do know a person who is fluent in about 12 languages most of them the ancient languages,
Father Mitch Pacwa from EWTN. He is a a Jesuit priest who can also say Mass in the eastern rite, the Maronite rite I believe. He does a call in show that airs on catholic radio. It’s the same day every week that he hosts the show. It is called EWTN Open Line - LIVE Fr. Mitch Pacwa 800-585-9396. Wednesday afternoon from 3-4pm ET. I know he can help.

Hope this helps.

Paul