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tee_eff_em
Guest
It should be translated to Mon 13, by the same rule and logic which the US patronal feast is translated to Mon 9.
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Frankk
Guest
Yes, but isn’t Red for martyrs only?
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Frankk
Guest
Yes, I think this is understood. A Solemnity ‘trumps’ a Sunday in Ordinary Time - but not in other Seasons of the Liturgical Year.
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benedictgal
Guest
It is also the color of the Passion and the color of the Holy Spirit.
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Frankk
Guest
Yes, but are the vestments during Lent the ‘normal’ purple - or red for martyr’s feasts or white for others? etc…?
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CDNowak
Guest
Not quite, but the solemnities of the Apostles (almost all martyrs) would be red.
I just found the Norms for the General Calendar, the table of liturgical days (59) is very useful. (although I must now correct myself, Sundays in Ordinary Time and Christmas are ranked with feasts, not Solemnities).
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CDNowak
Guest
The color depends on the feast or season celebrated at the particular Mass. So St Joseph (March 19th, Sol. during lent) we used white this past year. (And google is loving me today: Liturgical Calendar for the current year via USCCB, with color guide for vestments to boot, next years is here.)
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tee_eff_em
Guest
The only Solemnities in the General Calendar with the proper color red are Pentecost and SS Peter and Paul (the latter of which naturally falls in Ordinary Time). All other Solemnities are white (even when celebrated during Advent or Lent).
And the Solemnity of SS Peter & Paul is the only such apostolic Solemnity – The other Apostles are ranked as Feasts (except Barnabas, which is ranked as a Memorial). And for completeness: All of the apostles are properly red except for John, which is white. (The Conversion of Paul and Chair of Peter, also Feasts, are also white)
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Armchair Liturgical Calendar Nerd
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CDNowak
Guest
oops:blush: did know that, need to stop posting and reading for school at the same time!The only Solemnities in the General Calendar with the proper color red are Pentecost and SS Peter and Paul (the latter of which naturally falls in Ordinary Time). All other Solemnities are white (even when celebrated during Advent or Lent).
And the Solemnity of SS Peter & Paul is the only such apostolic Solemnity – The other Apostles are ranked as Feasts (except Barnabas, which is ranked as a Memorial). And for completeness: All of the apostles are properly red except for John, which is white. (The Conversion of Paul and Chair of Peter, also Feasts, are also white)
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Armchair Liturgical Calendar Nerd
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CatholicZ09
Guest
Okay, I was wondering why my Parochial Vicar was wearing red on Sunday for St. Luke. I didn’t know why Saints needed special colors.
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benedictgal
Guest
However, white is used for the Solemnity of St. John the Apostle (the only one not martyred) and for the Conversion of St. Paul and the Feast of the Chair of St. Peter. Furthermore, the Evangelists, with the exception of St. John, also have red vestments for their Masses.
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Frankk
Guest
The General Instruction of the Roman Missal says 'Nevertheless, if according to the norms a Feast is raised to the rank of a Solemnity, a third reading is added, taken from the Common.
When it refers to three readings it says there is one from a Prophet, an Apostle, and a Gospel.
However, when looking at the Common, there are no readings [as far as I can see] from Prophets. The Commons seem to have a reading from an Apostle and one from a Gospel. But I can’t see any from the Prophets.
So if the Feast is raised to a Solemnity, where do we get the reading from the Prophet???
When it refers to three readings it says there is one from a Prophet, an Apostle, and a Gospel.
However, when looking at the Common, there are no readings [as far as I can see] from Prophets. The Commons seem to have a reading from an Apostle and one from a Gospel. But I can’t see any from the Prophets.
So if the Feast is raised to a Solemnity, where do we get the reading from the Prophet???
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Bbigam
Guest
When we celebrated the Feast of St. Luke (we’re St. Luke parish), on Sunday, Oct. 18, we used the First Reading and Gospel from the propers for the Feast, and the second reading from that Sunday of ordinary time because St. Luke’s feast day has no listed second reading. So we actually had 2 epistle readings.
I believe I heard that last year in the Year of St. Paul the Feast of the Conversion of St. Paul fell on a Sunday and was allowed to be celebrated on Sunday due to the special year and that the Second Reading of the Sunday was to be used that day. I don’t remember where I heard that but it sounds like that would be the norm.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
OTOH, one might argue that a patron is essentially a Feast of the Lord, which would trump a green Sunday.
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tee_eff_em
Guest
A patron is either a Solemnity or a Feast, dependent upon the area of the patronage. From the Table of Liturgical Days in the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar (lower number have precedence over higher numbers):
For instance, in recent years in the US, Our Lady of Guadalupe has been raised from a Memorial to a Feast – I am not sure if this was a change in the General Roman Calendar, or if it is a result of her being named *Patroness of the Americas *(a “wider territory” a la 8c)?
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