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thomas_jd
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The Church asks us to pray the Liturgy.
Our Lady asked us to pray the rosary.
I try to do both !
Our Lady asked us to pray the rosary.
I try to do both !
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Dorothy
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Both the LOTH and the Rosary are excellent prayers.
I am happy to see so many lay people now praying the LOTH. Usually, they pray the Rosary as well.
I am happy to see so many lay people now praying the LOTH. Usually, they pray the Rosary as well.
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cothrige
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I notice nobody has mentioned the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Vatican II stated that those who pray such an office were said to “perform the public prayer of the Church” just as those who pray the LOTH do. It is extremely short, very easy, and quite inexpensive. The John Rotelle Little Office, which meets the requirements laid out at Vatican II, is widely available for about $10.
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Acolythus_sum
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I’m still at 1.5 hr for Matins and Lauds, read. Guess I need to practice more…
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DebChris
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If you combine Matins and Lauds, you start with “Lord, Open my lips and my mouth shall proclaim your praise.” Pray the Invitatory Psalm. Sing the Hymn for Lauds. Go straight to the first Antiphon for the 1st Psalm in the Office of Readings (Matins). After the readings, come back to the first psalm for Morning Prayer.
Repeating the antiphon after each psalm is optional. [It is repeated in my *Shorter Morning and Evening Prayer].
Without rushing anything, I am well able to finish the combined office in less than an hour, including the addition of the Little Crown of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
As mentioned earlier, I own the single volume Christian Prayer. I substitute for the non-Biblical reading a spiritual classic or other book. I read one chapter or section from the book. For instance, at the moment I am reading St. Augustine’s Confessions.
How much time are you giving yourself for meditation between psalms? This may be where you are adding time to your prayer?
I wake about 5am. Get dressed. Pray Matins and Lauds plus the Little Crown of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Read the Mass readings of the day. Fix breakfast. I am ready for my day by 6am.
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Bakuryokuso
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Without rushing anything, I am well able to finish the combined office in less than an hour, including the addition of the Little Crown of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
As mentioned earlier, I own the single volume Christian Prayer. I substitute for the non-Biblical reading a spiritual classic or other book. I read one chapter or section from the book. For instance, at the moment I am reading St. Augustine’s Confessions.
How much time are you giving yourself for meditation between psalms? This may be where you are adding time to your prayer?
I wake about 5am. Get dressed. Pray Matins and Lauds plus the Little Crown of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Read the Mass readings of the day. Fix breakfast. I am ready for my day by 6am.
Thanks for the outline, DebChris!
Just to be clear, though, Acolythus sum and bayernfan are referring to the 1962 Breviary, not the 1970 Liturgy of the Hours which you appear to be using. bayernfan claims to be able to do the 1962 Breviary in an hours - I think that’s a bit fast because of the sheer length of 1962 Matins.
I like the fact that the divine office was shortened to make it more doable for the laity.
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DebChris
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The thought came that both you and Acolythus could benefit from retreats with religious communities. Praying the LOTH with the community could help with your timing.Uh… just Matins in the 1962 Breviary takes like 45 minutes. I don’t think you could do all 8 hours in just 60 minutes.
The Trappist community in Conyers, GA chants the office. Your pastors should have information about nearby retreat centers.
In my first post, I mentioned that it was while on retreat that I first learned about the LOTH. That community, as well as the one in Conyers pray Morning Prayer immediately before Mass so that Morning Prayer leads into the Mass.
I come from a family that prayed the rosary together every night. It takes about 15 minutes to pray a single mystery, yet I have heard from people who say they prayed the rosary for an hour, and it didn’t make sense to me. Naturally if I pray the entire rosary, it will take more than an hour, especially if I add other prayers.
The LOTH is community prayer that is often prayed individually. When we pray the LOTH we join with the whole Church in honoring the precept to “pray always” as we honor the hours of the day. The rosary, on the other hand, is a personal devotion that is often prayed with the community. My overseas parish includes the Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary every time it recites the rosary before Mass. It also prays frequent novenas after the rosary and before Mass. Every Tuesday, the novena to St. Anthony is prayed and every Wednesday, the parish prays the Novena to the Our Lady of Perpetual Help. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is offered 1/2 hour before every Mass.
The daily Mass for my stateside parish is at 12:15pm. Daily confessions are available between 11:30 am and noon. The rosary begins at 11:45 and ends with the noon Angelus.
The devotion with which we pray is always more important than the amount of time that we spend praying. It should never be rushed.
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teachccd
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The LOTH is a well kept secret since most of the laity have never been exposed to it. All the reasons ( time, money and whatever) really have no bearing on such a beautiful prayer that many Catholics don’t even know exists. Catechesis is severely lacking here and in many other aspects of our faith… teachccd
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Bakuryokuso
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Thanks DebChris - I plan to do a retreat with the Benedectines this year… St Benoit du Lac abbey is only 90 minutes from me… I visited the abbey for mass at Canadian Thanksgiving and picked up their mini Latin-French monastic office (Lauds & Vespers) at their gift shoppe
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OraLabora
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I am an oblate of St. Benoît-du-Lac! I live 35 minutes away from the abbey.
They use Monastic Schema B. Unfortunately the breviary (in French) for that schema is out of print and a little difficult to find so the booklet from the gift shop is your best bet for Lauds, Vespers (and I think Compline). I have a copy of it and also the abbey’s Lauds and Vespers books in Latin-French with Gregorian notation.
I have been using the Monastic Schema A as an experiment since November, but it is a bit over the top time-wise, so I am going to go back to Schema B like at the abbey. I am in the process of putting together a booklet in chant notation for Matins as the French breviary for Schema B doesn’t have the noted antiphons or the psalmody in Latin. The Abbey does that office in French, recto-tono, but are as a result leaving out many beautiful Latin antiphons, I want to have the option to use them.
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bayernfan
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Thank you for the thought and appreciation. I just need to find a monastic community that uses the 1962 breviary/Divine Office (I thoroughly oppose the Liturgy of the Hours).
And, probably after graduation. It’s been a while since my last retreat.
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OraLabora
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You won’t find many monastic communities using the 1962 Breviary as most didn’t use the 1962 breviary even prior to Vatican II.Thank you for the thought and appreciation. I just need to find a monastic community that uses the 1962 breviary/Divine Office (I thoroughly oppose the Liturgy of the Hours).
And, probably after graduation. It’s been a while since my last retreat.
Most monastic communities, certainly the Benedictines and the two orders of Cistercians, use their own versions of the Divine Office. Many in fact still use the Divine Office as defined by St. Benedict 1500 years ago. Solesmes or St. Wandrille in France, for instance, use that office. It is much more difficult than the 1962 Breviary which in itself was the result of a simplifications of Pius X in 1910 (example: Matins is 12 psalms in the Benedictine Office, and only 9 in the 1962 Breviary). The Benedictine Office has been adapted to the post-Vatican II era as the collects, and liturgical year have been adapted, but the psalm schema remains the same 1500 y.o. schema outlined by St. Benedict.
Since Benedict also offered monasteries the option of adopting a different schema than his if all 150 psalms are recited in a week, some have adopted the monastic Schema A which is simpler as there are no repetitions.
However since Vatican II psalters spread over 2 weeks have been allowed. Benedictine Schemas C and D allow for that. Most traditional houses though stick with either Schema A or B which are spread over one week (although there are a couple of options allowed to spread B over 2 weeks).
The 1910 reforms of Pius X also made a major break with tradition by no longer saying the “laudate” psalms (148-149-150) every day after the O.T. canticle, and by dividing psalms into more or less equal length sections. That has not been done in the Benedictine Office. The 1962 Breviary’s tradition in fact only goes back to 1910… the Benedictine one goes back 1500 years. You decide which is “traditional”…
As for LOTH, it is what it is and is perfectly suited for those who are very busy. I would suggest that a deeper study of it would reveal that many, many traditions have in fact been kept particularly in the placement of psalms at hours suitable for their character, the practice of “lectio continua” of psalms at certain hours, and the basic layout of the Office. If you have time for one of the longer Offices, that’s great, but we shouldn’t scoff at those who choose the LOTH, it is a very worthy discipline to encourage.
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bayernfan
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Perhaps I didn’t convey my sense properly - yes, I do know that monastic communities didn’t use the 1962 Roman Office, as it was Roman, not monastic. I meant, and didn’t phrase it clearly, to find a community that celebrates with the books they used in 1962 (as Summorum Pontificum permits).
As to the history - yeah, the Office has definitely gone through some changes, some a lot more radical (some would say) than those experienced after the Council.
The LOTH - it needs to be re-examined - desperately. It is missing an ENTIRE year of readings (one story related in a book on the LOTH is how Bugnini and his assistant took the full LOTH to the printer, the printer said it was far too long to be printed in order to meet the Pope’s deadline, went back to his office, spread out every page of the Readings (I think this was for Office of Readings - if you want exact info, PM me or post here asking), and just cut out half of the set.
It is worthy, also, to me in the fact that it is liturgical prayer. However, the idea of a 4-week psalter has no precedence in Christianity, and one of the far, far, far weaker points for the LOTH.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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You should be very careful in mocking a valid option of the Church, especially when some of us out here have a devotion to it.Thank you for the thought and appreciation. I just need to find a monastic community that uses the 1962 breviary/Divine Office (I thoroughly oppose the Liturgy of the Hours).
And, probably after graduation. It’s been a while since my last retreat.
I do not just pray the LOTH out of obedience (as written in my rule and constitutions) but also out of a true devotion to it. This is one of the many things that drew me into religious life and what you say here, and else where, is offensive and has earned an ignore.
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bayernfan
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How am I mocking it? I’m not mocking it at all. I’m opposed to it. That’s that. I can hold that opinion. If it’s a condemned thing to be opposed to a certain form of public prayer, then quote it and let me see, however, I find there are other public prayers of the Church (most notably, the 1962 breviary) that are better.
It is a good and glorious thing that you have a devotion to the 2nd public prayer of the Church. I commend and admire you for that. More people need it, I think, in these times.
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OraLabora
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Actually the 2-year lectionary is still valid and in use; Saint-Benoît-du-Lac abbey, among others, uses it. You could buy the 1-volume Christian Prayer and find a 2-year lectionary. Solesmes puts out a Latin-French and French-only version. The LOTH has all the references to a 2-year cycle of readings so you can use the Bible if you need to.
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bayernfan
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Yeah, but it’s not as the official ICEL-translation. Which is the issue. :S
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OraLabora
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There’s always Latin
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Bakuryokuso
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That is fascinating! So what does being an oblate entail, exactly?
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OraLabora
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It’s an engagement to live your life according to the principles of the Rule of St. Benedict, as they can apply to your state in life. It includes among other things praying at least a part of the Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours), and a promise of obedience, stability and inner conversion.
PM me if you want more information specific to Saint-Benoît-du-Lac.
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