Looking ahead

[mathematoons]

I wasn’t sure where to post this, so I’m trying here.

Since the recent Supreme Court decision regarding marriage, I’ve been thinking about where all this is headed. I have considered the possibility that I may spend my old age in a prison cell for my refusal to deny Jesus (I’m 31 now).

So, I thought I’d ask: if I were writing a Catholic social-science-fiction story that takes place in the United States sometime between 2040 and 2060, in which Christians are persecuted, what would you expect such a future to look like?

Here are a few ideas I’ve thought of:

Pornography is completely legal and shown everywhere.
Anyone caught teaching their children anything contrary to the modernist orthodoxy will have them taken by the state.
Marriage is seen as an antiquated notion; there are only hookups. Few have children, but the few children who make it to birth are raised by their mothers and placed into daycare.
Homosexuality, incest, suicide, pedophilia, abortion, and bestiality are encouraged by society.

What do you think? Any ideas?

 

[JimG]

Given the scenarios that you have outlined, I think we are halfway there already. You may need to write fast in order to keep up with the reality!

 

[mathematoons]

Hmmm… I see your point. I’m trying to imagine what’s going on now being outdone by a little more than that. That’s part of why I started this thread.

 

[MatthewTrainor]

Pornography is completely legal and shown everywhere.
Anyone caught teaching their children anything contrary to the modernist orthodoxy will have them taken by the state.
Marriage is seen as an antiquated notion; there are only hookups. Few have children, but the few children who make it to birth are raised by their mothers and placed into daycare.
Homosexuality, incest, suicide, pedophilia, abortion, and bestiality are encouraged by society.

Your description almost pegs present day Japan where porn is widely accepted, so some research into how they got to where they are now could allow you to extrapolate to a global/American scenario.

You should also check out Your Brain on Porn as background research. They have gathered a lot of studies on the effects of porn on people and have found that excessive use of internet porn can actually cause ED and even reprogram sexual tastes. There are a lot of articles and stuff that can help you understand the physiology behind it so when you start writing your story will be more plausible. Good luck!

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I wasn’t sure where to post this, so I’m trying here.

Since the recent Supreme Court decision regarding marriage, I’ve been thinking about where all this is headed. I have considered the possibility that I may spend my old age in a prison cell for my refusal to deny Jesus (I’m 31 now).

So, I thought I’d ask: if I were writing a Catholic social-science-fiction story that takes place in the United States sometime between 2040 and 2060, in which Christians are persecuted, what would you expect such a future to look like?

Here are a few ideas I’ve thought of:

Pornography is completely legal and shown everywhere.
Anyone caught teaching their children anything contrary to the modernist orthodoxy will have them taken by the state.
Marriage is seen as an antiquated notion; there are only hookups. Few have children, but the few children who make it to birth are raised by their mothers and placed into daycare.
Homosexuality, incest, suicide, pedophilia, abortion, and bestiality are encouraged by society.

What do you think? Any ideas?

No privacy at all in future- none. Everything will be tracked and everyone will have to report what they are doing all the time so that they are accurately watched and monitored and controlled. People gave this up slowly by embracing “fun” kitschy unneeded things like internet social media sites to share personal information freely- then have that freely shared information be taken advantage of when someone decides to abuse it and cites if you offered it up freely then surely there is no crime in taking it freely then too.

Anyone requesting down time or privacy will be held suspect and prosecuted. We will all be slaves of the state, working for them only and the state gets to decide whether we are good producers or not. Those who are not- the disabled, the problematic- will either be used in “scientific” experiments (some mentally torturous) or killed straight off and their organs harvested… because after all they are unwanted and costly and we’d just be doing humanity a service by using them for something- just like how we abort ‘fetal cell tissue’- because its *helpful to someone *to do so.

Extra fertilized frozen embryos will be seized by the state, placed into surrogate mothers where as after birth these children will be taken away and raised by secret military force to be made into soldiers/workers- or used for whatever use they want. These children will be brainwashed, used and abused in a myriad of ways and no one would ever know about it because they live in these special camps. Being fully manipulated, they will have real power to use against the masses that do not cooperate with the state.

All people’s bodies from a young age will be fitted with a mandatory computer for ‘health and safety reasons’. They will cite this is also a learning tool for science and understanding the body but it will be used to control and manipulate people into doing things they did not wish to do or participate in. All abuse will be excused for the sake of ‘science’- and the people will fall for it.

…Sorry, just came from the “man arrested for shooting down a drone” thread here on C.A.

 

[Mongo]

The next major court battle will be over parental rights. My guess is that it will be in the form of teaching and whether a parent has a right to restrict what is taught to their child. Or about medical issues; can a parent refuse a medical treatment that a doctor deems to be the best option.

 

[JimG]

The next major court battle will be over parental rights. My guess is that it will be in the form of teaching and whether a parent has a right to restrict what is taught to their child. Or about medical issues; can a parent refuse a medical treatment that a doctor deems to be the best option.

Good point. Parents often find themselves at odds with what schools are teaching, in effect indoctrinating their children. Home schooling, perhaps even private schooling, might be made illegal.

 

[Mongo]

Good point. Parents often find themselves at odds with what schools are teaching, in effect indoctrinating their children. Home schooling, perhaps even private schooling, might be made illegal.

Not only that, it may get to the point that certain ideas are deemed to be ‘abusive’ to children.

 

[Ignatius]

I wasn’t sure where to post this, so I’m trying here.

Since the recent Supreme Court decision regarding marriage, I’ve been thinking about where all this is headed. I have considered the possibility that I may spend my old age in a prison cell for my refusal to deny Jesus (I’m 31 now).

So, I thought I’d ask: if I were writing a Catholic social-science-fiction story that takes place in the United States sometime between 2040 and 2060, in which Christians are persecuted, what would you expect such a future to look like?

Here are a few ideas I’ve thought of:

Pornography is completely legal and shown everywhere.
Anyone caught teaching their children anything contrary to the modernist orthodoxy will have them taken by the state.
Marriage is seen as an antiquated notion; there are only hookups. Few have children, but the few children who make it to birth are raised by their mothers and placed into daycare.
Homosexuality, incest, suicide, pedophilia, abortion, and bestiality are encouraged by society.

What do you think? Any ideas?

You have pretty much nailed it.

 

[Pallas_Athene]

Come on, guys and gals! Such measly, irrelevant predictions. Where is your fantasy, your imagination? It will be mandatory to participate in bi-sexual orgies.
It will be mandatory to get pregnant and have the “baybee” harvested for stem-cell research.
All the churches will be converted to bars and/or “houses of ill repute”.
Everyone will have a chip implanted in their brain which monitors their thought processes.
If you have a pious thought you will get a nasty electric shock to your genitals.
On the other hand, if you will think of a profanity you will get nice stimulus to your pleasure center.
Everyone must worship Satan.
… and that is only for starters.

What kind of a depressants do you take? There will be no noticeable change. Just because the church persecuted the heretics, the new, secular world will not persecute you. I hope this will not come as a nasty let down, but you will have to find martyrdom in some other fashion.

If you really want to read a depressing novel, read Margaret Atwood’s “The Handmaid’s Tale”.

 

[Mongo]

Come on, guys and gals! Such measly, irrelevant predictions. Where is your fantasy, your imagination? It will be mandatory to participate in bi-sexual orgies.
It will be mandatory to get pregnant and have the “baybee” harvested for stem-cell research.
All the churches will be converted to bars and/or “houses of ill repute”.
Everyone will have a chip implanted in their brain which monitors their thought processes.
If you have a pious thought you will get a nasty electric shock to your genitals.
On the other hand, if you will think of a profanity you will get nice stimulus to your pleasure center.
Everyone must worship Satan.
… and that is only for starters.

What kind of a depressants do you take? There will be no noticeable change. Just because the church persecuted the heretics, the new, secular world will not persecute you. I hope this will not come as a nasty let down, but you will have to find martyrdom in some other fashion.

If you really want to read a depressing novel, read Margaret Atwood’s “The Handmaid’s Tale”.

It isn’t about persecution necessarily. It is simply that the secular world has a different idea of life than religious. Their idea is blatantly contradictory to Christianity. I recently read an article on an Australian news site that was basically an interview with two philosophers who were arguing that the family needs to be radically changed because as an institution it is a cause of injustice. So we need to outlaw private schools, and make some other changes because private schools cause certain children to have an unfair advantage. They also made the point that it isn’t a natural right that a parent raise their biological children, or that children be raised by their biological parents. That is all a social construct.

You think we are conspiracy theorists looking for someone to persecute us, but we are just reading the events and the news.

 

[Pallas_Athene]

It isn’t about persecution necessarily. It is simply that the secular world has a different idea of life than religious. Their idea is blatantly contradictory to Christianity.

Very true.

Now here comes the question: “if you are free to practice your religion in your home and in your temples and churches, then what is the problem”? I am aware of the “requirement” to spread the “good news”, but people speak loud and clear: “thanks, but NO thanks”. We don’t care about your “good news”. If you wish to live according to them, more power to you. But you cannot force your “morality” on the rest of us. No one will force you to have abortions, no one will force you to use contraceptives.

But you cannot force others to use “NFP” or to be precise: “periodic abstinence”. You are free to talk about it and free to practice it, but that is all. It is really ironic, that the ultra-orthodox faction of Catholicism is rapidly becoming a fringe “sect”. (By the way, do you know who are the people who belong to a “sect”? Answer: “the ones who attend a church next to yours” )

Nevertheless, I can “feel your pain” - as Clinton used to say. You have a problem with the secular world establishing patterns of behavior which you find repulsive. (Of course you are not forced to participate.) But the problem is that your children cannot be isolated, they will learn that homosexual behavior is fine and dandy. That other people are not heretics, even if their standards are different. This is very true, and I know it is troubling for you.

But what can you do? Move to a different country, where your kind of “morality” is the mainstream is one option (Nigeria perhaps? Or Russia?). Or you can peacefully concede defeat, and hope that in the afterlife you will enjoy the beatific vision, and you can say: “nyah, nyah” to the others who burn in hell for their sin. You will have the final laugh. And nothing is sweeter than Schadenfreude.

I recently read an article on an Australian news site that was basically an interview with two philosophers who were arguing that the family needs to be radically changed because as an institution it is a cause of injustice. So we need to outlaw private schools, and make some other changes because private schools cause certain children to have an unfair advantage. They also made the point that it isn’t a natural right that a parent raise their biological children, or that children be raised by their biological parents. That is all a social construct.

If you present the same question to two philosophers. you will likely get at least three responses possibly depending on the time of day.

You think we are conspiracy theorists looking for someone to persecute us, but we are just reading the events and the news.

Looking at this website this is not a farfetched conclusion.

 

[Mongo]

This isn’t about my kind of morality or your kind of morality. Frankly, I don’t care what you do (abortion is murder so I do care about that one). You can use all the contraception you want and no one will care. The ones who do expect conformity are the secular atheists who speak about ‘tolerance’. They are the loudest screamers about morality. They create a knew morality of egalitarianism and try to shout everyone down that doesn’t accept their view of the world.

 

[JimG]

The ideas given in your original post are a starting point, having to do with a decline in morals, continued decline in the family, forced secularization. But the near future may pose quite a few more problems than that. Destruction of the family leads to both atomization of society and to tyranny.

This article, although it is mainly about Europe, provides food for thought. Patriotism is pretty much dead, people are unwilling to fight for their nation, and the U.S., though seeing itself as a superpower, is so weak culturally and morally that a push from Russia or China might topple it. Even if willing to fight, we have all become too fat and lazy to actually do it. Just ask the Army recruiters.

“Only 29 percent of French respondents, 27 percent of Brits, and 18 percent of Germans said they would fight for their country. A shocking 68 percent of Italians said they would positively refuse to defend their nation.
…In the U.S., 44 percent of respondents said they would take up arms for our nation.”

Nihilism, secularism, family decay, leads to civilizational collapse, and easy pickings for one’s enemies.

crisismagazine.com/2015/europe-a-land-without-love

 

[JimG]

One more quote:

“The era of great powers conflict is not over. A Chinese general recently remarked that war with the U.S. “is inevitable.” Vladimir Putin, who has a vastly superior knowledge of history to our president, continues to test the commitment of western nations to the promises they made to each other.
Christendom has given way to a secularized Europe. War-councils of wise and brave men have given way to an endless proliferation of impotent councils spawned by that bloated leviathan, the EU, which continues to emasculate itself. Europe will defend nothing because she loves nothing; neither her Church, nor her culture, nor her own children (what few there are).”

 

[Pallas_Athene]

This isn’t about my kind of morality or your kind of morality. Frankly, I don’t care what you do (abortion is murder so I do care about that one). You can use all the contraception you want and no one will care.

What about homosexual marriage?

The ones who do expect conformity are the secular atheists who speak about ‘tolerance’. They are the loudest screamers about morality. They create a knew morality of egalitarianism and try to shout everyone down that doesn’t accept their view of the world.

The second loudest, maybe. The loudest ones are the Christians who demand tolerance in those countries where they are persecuted. And of course, they are right, they should not be persecuted. The ironic thing about you (not personally) that you want to discriminate against certain people, but when you are the target of discrimination then you are upset. Can’t have your cake and eat it, too.

Better be thankful for the drive by the secularists to make tolerance the norm. The Scandinavian countries are as secular as they can get. There is no persecution of Christians over there.

 

[Mongo]

What about homosexual marriage?

The second loudest, maybe. The loudest ones are the Christians who demand tolerance in those countries where they are persecuted. And of course, they are right, they should not be persecuted. The ironic thing about you (not personally) that you want to discriminate against certain people, but when you are the target of discrimination then you are upset. Can’t have your cake and eat it, too.

Better be thankful for the drive by the secularists to make tolerance the norm. The Scandinavian countries are as secular as they can get. There is no persecution of Christians over there.

Marriage is a dead concept in secular society. It will remain as a religious institution, but besides that it will disappear in the next 25 years. So it shouldn’t matter whether I oppose gay marriage. Gay marriage doesn’t exist. Gays can do whatever they want, I don’t care. But I wont recognize their relationships as equal to a normal relationship.

Tolerance doesn’t exist in liberal secular societies. They are herds that use tolerance to force uniformity. Look at the way they treat anyone who doesn’t fall into lock step. They are shouted down through social media and paid protesters. They are a mob of tools.

Secularists show their apathy toward people when they don’t even speak about the people who are being killed in the Middle East. One lion gets killed and it is the biggest story in the news. But thousands of Christians have been murdered in the Middle East and they say nothing.

 

[Pallas_Athene]

Marriage is a dead concept in secular society. It will remain as a religious institution, but besides that it will disappear in the next 25 years.

I have no “faith” in your prophetic powers. Observe the most part of Western Europe. The attitude toward religion is best describes as “apathy”, not “antagonistic”. People get that “piece of paper” for their own inscrutable purposes. If marriage would not carry certain advantages (tax, etc.) then I also believe that it would die out. And good riddance, too.

But I wont recognize their relationships as equal to a normal relationship.

That is your prerogative. But don’t be surprised if other people disagree with you.

Tolerance doesn’t exist in liberal secular societies.

I never heard of lynching mobs of gays and lesbians targeting good, God-fearing people. But maybe I don’t follow the news THAT closely.

Secularists show their apathy toward people when they don’t even speak about the people who are being killed in the Middle East. One lion gets killed and it is the biggest story in the news. But thousands of Christians have been murdered in the Middle East and they say nothing.

I think you are guilty of unfair generalizing.

 

[mathematoons]

I don’t really see the point of this debate about whether Christians will be persecuted in the United States. That’s not what this thread is about. It’s about what a future in which Christians are persecuted might look like.

My opinion is that it could very well happen. It may also be that Christianity will decline so quickly that no one will see the need to persecute us. That would make an interesting story too; what might it be like to be one of the last?

But the point is to imagine one possible scenario, not to speculate about whether it will come to pass.

 

[JimG]

The question is which will decline faster, Christianity, or the surrounding civilization in which it resides. My guess is that the decline of the family will cause the society to decline so rapidly that persecution may well be a moot point. It’s a rather academic study, but one might re-read Carle Zimmerman’s “Family and Civilization,” for a study of what happens to civilizations when family structure implodes.