Looking for a Quote on Atheism

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RockPigeon

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Hello everybody.

Long story short, a man I know is very stuck on the fact that atheists are essentially evil people with no excuses and possible redemption.

A while ago I read a quote (which I thought was either from the Church or by a Catholic author) that said something along the lines of it being better to be an atheist because you have pursued the truth with great fervor and have honestly come to that conclusion as opposed to being a complacent theist who does not live out their faith.

Searching around for this has provided nothing. Does anybody have a clue what this quote is, and who said it? I would like to provide this quote for my friend.

Thank you.
 
I can’t find the quoter either, but I agree with his/her statement. In many ways, dead religion is more dangerous to universal salvation than reluctant Atheism.

:sad_yes:

People who are Christians by belief but Atheists by action have a higher chance of leading both christians and atheists away from divine truths.
 
I know many, and I think many people know as well, what I call “practical atheists” in that the way they live, speak and act is far God or at least exposes they have no fear of God. I don’t think they are intentionally evil, but they won’t be saved either.

I guess it comes to what our definition of evil would be. Either intentionally acting counter to natural law, or just turning our back on God. By the first most people would not be considered evil, by the second most would, at least at some level.
 
AtDawn said:
Redemption or not, obviously neither you nor your friend know many atheists.
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Please read entire posts before commenting. If you read the post you would understand I obviously do not think this.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
I don’t think they are intentionally evil, but they won’t be saved either.
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Not necessarily. I see that you are Anglican, so perhaps we disagree on this, but here are the wise words from the catechism:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (CCC 846)

**This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)**

And of course the disclaimer as to not take the “Guess I don’t have to evangelize. then!” approach:

Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men. (CCC 848)
 
RockPigeon said:
Not necessarily. I see that you are Anglican, so perhaps we disagree on this, but here are the wise words from the catechism:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (CCC 846)

**This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)**

And of course the disclaimer as to not take the “Guess I don’t have to evangelize. then!” approach:

Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men. (CCC 848)
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I hear what you are saying, about those who have not heard the Gospel. I was coming from a point of view of the average American, and more specifically people who have been baptized but live a life without the fear of (respect for) God.

As far as The CCC goes, I believe it also states in the section on the church that all baptized in the Trinitarian formula (in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) are part of the universal church, and therefore saved. Is that correct?
 
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