Looking for Catholic music online

[mschrank]

I just don’t see the point of CCM. When I listened to it, it was because I was told by my parents that all secular music was evil. I listened to it for its musical value. That’s why I compare it to bacon bits or near-beer.

Do you listen to it to achieve some kind of higher spiritual state, as opposed to for its musical value alone? Is that why you don’t mind the inferior musical quality?

Yet still, why eat mutton if you can have lamb- why not listen to Organum or another form of Polyphonic Chant from the 12th-14th centuries, which is both technically amazing and spiritually uplifting? Why not raise your soul and intellect with the counterpoint and complexity of Vivaldi? What does CCM offer that traditional music doesn’t?

As Catholics, we have this astounding musical tradition stretching back about 1500 years, but some people want pop music. It’s like going to McDonalds when you could be eating gourmet…

 

[Nick_Alexander]

Your logic is flawed. Here’s why:

You go to a supermarket you buy an apple. The apple is bad.
You go back, you buy another apple. That apple is bad.
You keep returning, multiple, multiple times. Each apple you purchase is bad.

Therefore, you conclude that all apples are bad.
No. The supermarket’s produce section is bad, but there are wonderful apples outside of that supermarket.

Your experience with mediocre Christian music is very real, and it’s clear that you’re impassioned about it. But there’s great contemporary Christian music that doesn’t get any airplay, just as there’s great secular music that doesn’t get any airplay, just like there’s… hello?.. great CATHOLIC Contemporary Music that is a complete blind spot to folks like you.

You asked before what does contemporary music have that polyphony doesn’t. Before I answer this, I remind you that I do not write this to go all negative on traditional music–I love ALL music, as long as it is performed well. What is wrong is the notion–your notion–that “Jesus Christ is Lord, yesterday, yesterday, and yesterday”, and that artists today ought to bury their talents in the ground, hiding them under a lamp.

So… please refer me to the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that speaks of the recent “Unborn Victims of Violence” bill that was being promoted in the Senate. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that decries the faulty values of modern-day America. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that shares the story of a teenager who regrets having an abortion. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that motivates me in my workouts. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that sings of the joy of evangelization, putting John Paul II’s words “Open Wide the Doors to Christ” in effect. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that expresses joy in goofy, common-day, life, that exists without any pretences, just to show that Catholics can have fun.

All things in their proper place, to be sure. But, to me, it speaks very ill of you to retract your apology a few posts before.

 

[idrum677]

:banghead:
I’m not comparing it to 12 century polyphony or a Bach organ fugue or even John Michael Talbot.
I listen to it because its upbeat, not complicated, and it can be uplifting. I have done a lot of work with youth and find it a valuable resource.

It’s really not as complicated as this discussion has become.

 

[mschrank]

Your logic is flawed. Here’s why:

You go to a supermarket you buy an apple. The apple is bad.
You go back, you buy another apple. That apple is bad.
You keep returning, multiple, multiple times. Each apple you purchase is bad.

Therefore, you conclude that all apples are bad.
No. The supermarket’s produce section is bad, but there are wonderful apples outside of that supermarket.

Your experience with mediocre Christian music is very real, and it’s clear that you’re impassioned about it. But there’s great contemporary Christian music that doesn’t get any airplay, just as there’s great secular music that doesn’t get any airplay, just like there’s… hello?.. great CATHOLIC Contemporary Music that is a complete blind spot to folks like you.

Maybe I would just decide I did not like apples, and I like pears instead (in real life, I actually do not like apples but I love pears). But that’s not really a good analogy, because aesthetic criticism can be objective (that is, unless you’re a deconstructionist) and some music is actually “better” than others while fruit is a matter of taste. Still, I do understand what you are saying, it’s out there, somewhere CCM pop music that can compare to Dylan or the Beatles or other great examples of the genre. I cannot argue with what I do not know of.

You asked before what does contemporary music have that polyphony doesn’t. Before I answer this, I remind you that I do not write this to go all negative on traditional music–I love ALL music, as long as it is performed well. What is wrong is the notion–your notion–that “Jesus Christ is Lord, yesterday, yesterday, and yesterday”, and that artists today ought to bury their talents in the ground, hiding them under a lamp.

You have a good point there… Not everyone likes or has the talent to play “Classical” music. So, they have to do something.

So… please refer me to the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that speaks of the recent “Unborn Victims of Violence” bill that was being promoted in the Senate.

I never knew relevance to news was a big issue for musical criticism, but if it is to you, I can’t argue with that.

Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that decries the faulty values of modern-day America.

The beauty and order inherent in much classical music contrasts with the chaos disorder inherent in modern morality. Pythagoras was right about some things you know. I think listening to beautiful music can help one to contemplate morality.

Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that shares the story of a teenager who regrets having an abortion.

You’ve never heard a “sad” classical piece?

Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that motivates me in my workouts.

Vivaldi’s “Summer”? That piece rocks! How about Tchaikovsky’s 3rd Symphony, final movement?

Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that sings of the joy of evangelization, putting John Paul II’s words “Open Wide the Doors to Christ” in effect.

How about Puer Natus Est by Leotin? The Hymns of St. Thomas Aquinas? Evangelization is about bringing people to God, Chant brings our hearts and souls upwards just like the great Cathedrals bring our eyes upwards. Pop music oftentimes has its physiological counterpart in the guts, in the emotion, and sentiment.

Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that expresses joy in goofy, common-day, life, that exists without any pretences, just to show that Catholics can have fun.

How about “When the Rebbe Elimelech gets so very merry?” (Jewish, but still orchesteral )

All things in their proper place, to be sure. But, to me, it speaks very ill of you to retract your apology a few posts before.

Nah, I had to say this to defend myself from your insults. One honest question though, you seem to be quite familiar with pop culture, do you really consider yourself that versed in the classics? I don’t know you, so I’m not going to assume here.

 

[beckers]

MATT MAHER!!!

www.mattmahermusic.com or www.myspace.com/mattmahermusic

www.spiritandsong.com

www.adambitter.com (I play on the live one)

there is a sticky on this

I agree. I can’t wait to see him in April. He is coming with Jeremy Camp…

 

[idrum677]

:

Your logic is flawed. Here’s why:

You go to a supermarket you buy an apple. The apple is bad.
You go back, you buy another apple. That apple is bad.
You keep returning, multiple, multiple times. Each apple you purchase is bad.

Therefore, you conclude that all apples are bad.
No. The supermarket’s produce section is bad, but there are wonderful apples outside of that supermarket.

Your experience with mediocre Christian music is very real, and it’s clear that you’re impassioned about it. But there’s great contemporary Christian music that doesn’t get any airplay, just as there’s great secular music that doesn’t get any airplay, just like there’s… hello?.. great CATHOLIC Contemporary Music that is a complete blind spot to folks like you.

You asked before what does contemporary music have that polyphony doesn’t. Before I answer this, I remind you that I do not write this to go all negative on traditional music–I love ALL music, as long as it is performed well. What is wrong is the notion–your notion–that “Jesus Christ is Lord, yesterday, yesterday, and yesterday”, and that artists today ought to bury their talents in the ground, hiding them under a lamp.

So… please refer me to the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that speaks of the recent “Unborn Victims of Violence” bill that was being promoted in the Senate. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that decries the faulty values of modern-day America. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that shares the story of a teenager who regrets having an abortion. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that motivates me in my workouts. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that sings of the joy of evangelization, putting John Paul II’s words “Open Wide the Doors to Christ” in effect. Or the polyphony/chant/orchestral work that expresses joy in goofy, common-day, life, that exists without any pretences, just to show that Catholics can have fun.

All things in their proper place, to be sure. But, to me, it speaks very ill of you to retract your apology a few posts before.

Nick, I couldn’t express this better. Thank you.

 

[Nick_Alexander]

Maybe I would just decide I did not like apples, and I like pears instead (in real life, I actually do not like apples but I love pears). But that’s not really a good analogy, because aesthetic criticism can be objective (that is, unless you’re a deconstructionist) and some music is actually “better” than others while fruit is a matter of taste.

Reading JPII’s “Letter to Artists”, not to mention Romanowski’s “Pop Culture Wars”, and Roger Ebert’s reviews… I tend to disagree. Your criticism is of an entire genre, based on your (limited) experiences, whereas my criticisms are directed toward you, but not toward the music you so highly regard.

Still, I do understand what you are saying, it’s out there, somewhere CCM pop music that can compare to Dylan or the Beatles or other great examples of the genre. I cannot argue with what I do not know of.

Here’s a hint. Two years ago, the artist that was most critically acclaimed (according to metacritic.com), was a Christian artist–Sufjan Stevens. Here’s someone who would never get any Christian radio airplay, but he’s played at Cornerstone Festival (with Danielson Famile), not to mention the very overt Christian themes in his songs (which transcend genre). Start there, write a book report and call me in the morning.

You have a good point there… Not everyone likes or has the talent to play “Classical” music. So, they have to do something.

Like… you know… speak with the talents they do have, to the culture that yearns for it.

My examples below show that there is a wide range of song subject matter that, based on lyrics, your classical music could not touch. And while I respect you giving it a go, you know full well that you were grabbing at straws. Further, you obviously haven’t seen enough Hollywood films with objectionable material, that employ usage of many of these classical themes… we can start a list if you’d like.

Nah, I had to say this to defend myself from your insults.

Still waiting for a retraction of your retraction.

One honest question though, you seem to be quite familiar with pop culture, do you really consider yourself that versed in the classics? I don’t know you, so I’m not going to assume here.

I’ve got a huge collection of classical pieces on my iPod, intermixed with contemporary music. Some playlists are set apart by topical and liturgical-season themes, and genreless. But that is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you forcefed your own opinion on a board that didn’t ask for it. Worse still, you apologzied, and then you retracted your apology. This is not a good witness for your style of music.

 

[mschrank]

I’ll look up Sufjan Stevens. Look, if some Christian artists are making good music in their own right, that’s fine. What I am against is substandard music.

PS. The music I like needs no witness, it stands on its own even if Hitler loved Wagner. Oh, and I listen to pop music too.

Update: I listed to Sufijan Stevens. How is this Christian? I mean, it’s not offensive, but I don’t see how “Chicago” and “John Wayne Gacy” qualify as CCM.

 

[Nick_Alexander]

I’ll look up Sufjan Stevens. In the mean time, like, enjoy the pop tart life.

You contradict yourself. Surely you mean tofu-burgers and bacon-bits, no?

I still think most CCM is pointless for adults anyway. I can understand why nick might need to use CCM to get kids interested, but for adults, really.

Um… CATHOLIC Contemporary Christian Music, and it’s for all ages.

PS. The music I like needs no witness, it stands on its own even if Hitler loved Wagner.

Here’s a hint: retract your retraction of your retraction, and start acting a little more Christ-like.

 

[Nick_Alexander]

Update: I listed to Sufijan Stevens. How is this Christian? I mean, it’s not offensive, but I don’t see how “Chicago” and “John Wayne Gacy” qualify as CCM.

Clips? Or the whole song?

 

[mschrank]

I edited the post because it was kind of nasty and I realized not all CCM is crud, per your post.

I’m still not apologizing for zilch, you attacked me.

 

[Nick_Alexander]

I edited the post because it was kind of nasty and I realized not all CCM is crud, per your post.

I appreciate that…

I’m still not apologizing for zilch, you attacked me.

Please point to where I attacked you, and I will apologize. If it was for pointing out the obvious (like, your retraction of an apology), well, that’s simply pointing out the truth. Such actions will not draw new listeners to your favorite music.

 

[mschrank]

Didn’t you say that I was mediocre myself because I had read a Franky Schaffer book? Kinda insulting I think.

This thread reminded me that I needed to lighten up and listen to some pop music. Listening to some good old fashioned 80s cheese now. I guess the brain needs time to relax from time to time.

Still, I wouldn’t worship to Tiffany, but to each their own.

 

[Nick_Alexander]

Didn’t you say that I was mediocre myself because I had read a Franky Schaffer book? Kinda insulting I think.

No, I was saying that Franky Schaffer calling something mediocre is likened to the pot calling the kettle black. I later clarified, saying he was at the helm of four truly-terrible movies (which he would gladly concede).

So you were untouched by that comment.

 

[agapewolf]

I’ll look up Sufjan Stevens. Look, if some Christian artists are making good music in their own right, that’s fine. What I am against is substandard music.

.

You are against it? You have a moral problem with it? Why spend so much time on this. People like certain kinds of music, that you say is bad, maybe some of it is objectively bad. SO WHAT? What do you have to gain by taking this up as a moral cause?

and by the way, the first round of Christian music was pretty stinky and canned. Its a whole new thing now.

 

[mschrank]

No, I was saying that Franky Schaffer calling something mediocre is likened to the pot calling the kettle black. I later clarified, saying he was at the helm of four truly-terrible movies (which he would gladly concede).

So you were untouched by that comment.

If that’s not what you meant, then fine.

Agape: Bad music is a sin! Ugliness is bad.

 

[chrisguz]

Check out Curtis Stephan on iTunes - you can hear his whole “Sacred Revolution” CD and I recommend getting the whole thing because it is an amazing album. Unfotunately, you will probably be hooked on his music and his other albums are not national. If you like Matt Maher you will love Curtis! He has really wowed the Dallas area at youth events, etc…

 

[DiZent]

In my experience, CCM led me to find the Catholic artists. I started listening to CCM on the radio to “improve my conscious contact with God” and I liked the music and the message, but noticed that it was very protestant - where were the Catholics? CCM as a music genre has grown into the mainstream and has it’s own publicity machine that seems to (knowingly or unknowingly) exclude Catholic artists. There is a lot of good CCM out there. And I like Michael W. Smith, the Newsboys, Steven Curtis Chapman, Avalon - and I’ve attended their concerts. Catholic artists are a little harder to find, but definitely available on the internet.