Lost the cultural debate on homosexuality

[Kendy]

I am watching CNN and basketball player Tim Hardaway made some anti-gay comments about the a gay player. Now, I don’t think his comments were wise. He basically said, “Yes, I am homophobic. I don’t like gays” to an accusation of bigotry.

I don’t think the way he responded was loving, but I am amazed by how it seems univerally accepted that homosexuality is normal, and anyone who suggests otherwise is a bigotted fool.

After the intreview, a panel of sports commentors got together to condemn him. One said, it doesn’t make sense to him that that a black man would want to exclude someone. I guess they are now the same thing.

Anyway, all of this is concerning me. Nations are passing laws that restrict what people can say about homosexuality, catholic charities are being forced to accept gay adoption, and the majority of catholics I know are in favor of gay marriage.

Have we lost the culture war? What are we to do?

Kendy

 

[perez639]

Have we lost the culture war? What are we to do?

Kendy

I know exactly what you mean… Feels like the fight has been lost already… but I don’t think it has been lost just yet. There are those of us who are still willing to fight as draining as it may be we must not give up!!

Peace be with you all,

Neomi

 

[Jaypeeto3]

What Hardaway said was “I HATE GAY PEOPLE.”
That was way over the top. Yes, homosexual acts are grave sins, but somehow I doubt that Hardaway and his fellow athletes are or always have been, sexually chaste, reserving sex only for use in the sacrament of marriage between a man and a woman. Celebrities generally are notorious fornicators, also a mortal sin, so his comment about I HATE GAY PEOPLE comes across as especially noxious.

On the public acceptance of homosexual behaviour as “normal,” that’s another matter. The public has only come to accept this because it has been force-fed a diet of pro-homosexual propaganda by the mainstream media for the past 35 years or more. So, people at first became desensitized to the fact of the seriousness of such sins, and the more media brainwashing the public received, the public has gradually grown into believing that it is WRONG to believe that such sexual behaiour is even a sin at all.

There are some who think out Times are no different than any other time in history. They are wrong. Global pushing of homosexuality, global pushing of abortion, global opposition to the Christian faith, while accepting of every form of sacrilege and blasphemy under the guise of “tolerance,” yes, our Times are unprecedented, and ripe for a fierce Chastisement from God.

 

[Kendy]

I know exactly what you mean… Feels like the fight has been lost already… but I don’t think it has been lost just yet. There are those of us who are still willing to fight as draining as it may be we must not give up!!

Peace be with you all,

Neomi

I know we must not give up. But how did this happen? When I was a little girl, everyone was certain that homosexuality was sin. In fact, I never even thought about it. The first time I heard of the concept, I must have been 10 or 11, I instinctively felt that it was the stangest thing anyone can do.

And then it’s like I woke up one morning and suddenly, the whole world had forgotten what they believed just yesterday. Think about how quickly this tidal wave swept through the West, how quickly, we who believe in what all civilizations have believed have suddenly become the enemy of civilization,

Two days ago, I was watching another TV show, nad they had on a token conservative voice, and they asked him to explain his opposition to gay marriage as if he was telling them some strange thing. How did we get put on the defense?

Kendy

 

[vern_humphrey]

I am watching CNN and basketball player Tim Hardaway made some anti-gay comments about the a gay player. Now, I don’t think his comments were wise. He basically said, “Yes, I am homophobic. I don’t like gays” to an accusation of bigotry.

I don’t think the way he responded was loving, but I am amazed by how it seems univerally accepted that homosexuality is normal, and anyone who suggests otherwise is a bigotted fool.

After the intreview, a panel of sports commentors got together to condemn him. One said, it doesn’t make sense to him that that a black man would want to exclude someone. I guess they are now the same thing.

Anyway, all of this is concerning me. Nations are passing laws that restrict what people can say about homosexuality, catholic charities are being forced to accept gay adoption, and the majority of catholics I know are in favor of gay marriage.

Have we lost the culture war? What are we to do?

Kendy

What we may be losing is the human rights war. Many people are buying into the idea tjhat freedom of speech doesn’t cover unpopular speech – or speech the government doesn’t approve of. Which effectively kills the whole idea of freedom of speech.

Freedom of religion is next on the chopping block.

 

[Kendy]

What Hardaway said was “I HATE GAY PEOPLE.”
That was way over the top. Yes, homosexual acts are grave sins, but somehow I doubt that Hardaway and his fellow athletes are or always have been, sexually chaste, reserving sex only for use in the sacrament of marriage between a man and a woman. Celebrities generally are notorious fornicators, also a mortal sin, so his comment about I HATE GAY PEOPLE comes across as especially noxious.

I don’t want to defend Tim Hardaway. I have been concerned about well before Tim Hardaway. Although I don’t think he would have gone that far if he had not been pushed the corner, and called a bigot. Again, I don’t he sholuld have responded as he did, but I am really frustrated by where we are.

I feel like people expect me to furnish them with a list of 10 scientific studies that prove that gay marriage will harm children. How often do we hear, there’s no scientific proof that children are negatively affected by having two moms. And maybe there aren’t but I am still amazed by how quickly we got put on the defense.

On the public acceptance of homosexual behaviour as “normal,” that’s another matter. The public has only come to accept this because it has been force-fed a diet of pro-homosexual propaganda by the mainstream media for the past 35 years or more. So, people at first became desensitized to the fact of the seriousness of such sins, and the more media brainwashing the public received, the public has gradually grown into believing that it is WRONG to believe that such sexual behaiour is even a sin at all.

There are some who think out Times are no different than any other time in history. They are wrong. Global pushing of homosexuality, global pushing of abortion, global opposition to the Christian faith, while accepting of every form of sacrilege and blasphemy under the guise of “tolerance,” yes, our Times are unprecedented, and ripe for a fierce Chastisement from God.

Yes, it’s very discouraging. What is particularly discouraging is how prevalent it is in the church. You know since I returned to the church, I have tried very hard to find orthodox catholic activities to no avail. Everywhere I go is dominated by dissenters. From mass to diocese sponsored events, I can’t find a single place where the teachings of the church are known, let alone loved and respected.

And this is the root of it. How are our people supposed to withstand the constant bombardment of immoral message where there’s no way to go to hear the truth.

Kendy

 

[Jaypeeto3]

What is amusing (and scary) is that it is the people who call themselves open-minded, tolerant “liberals” who are pushing all the anti-religious movements and bills.

Scratch a liberal politician hard enough, and
you’ll uncover a fascist.

 

[Kendy]

What we may be losing is the human rights war. Many people are buying into the idea tjhat freedom of speech doesn’t cover unpopular speech – or speech the government doesn’t approve of. Which effectively kills the whole idea of freedom of speech.

Freedom of religion is next on the chopping block.

Yes, but maybe it will be good for us. Perhaps, we won’t be so spiritual lazy when faced with persecution.

Peter Kreeft once said that God will allow us to be persecuted in these times for our purification.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

What is amusing (and scary) is that it is the people who call themselves open-minded, tolerant “liberals” who are pushing all the anti-religious movements and bills.

Scratch a liberal politician hard enough, and
you’ll uncover a fascist.

I was arguing with my brother once about the dangers of materialism, and he very sternly told me that I was being judgemental.

My roomate and I were were watching house, and someone was told someone else that she didn’t understand what real commitment is. My roomate chimed in that it was inappropriate to tell someone about what is important to her. She also has a friend who only dates men who are old enough to be her grandfather, but we are not even allowed to think that this is weird because it " a core of er being."

The only sin in our society is perceived “intolerance.”

 

[Other_Eric]

Yes, it is obvious to me that we are fast losing the cultural war on this issue. We have become soft and too timid. In order to avoid hurting the feelings of those with same-sex attractions, Christians end up watering down or doing outright violence to Christ’s Truth. Stemming this foul tide is going to involve much more in the way of legal, social and cultural action.

 

[vern_humphrey]

What is amusing (and scary) is that it is the people who call themselves open-minded, tolerant “liberals” who are pushing all the anti-religious movements and bills.

Scratch a liberal politician hard enough, and
you’ll uncover a fascist.

Liberals worship diversity in everything but ideas.

 

[Kendy]

Yes, it is obvious to me that we are fast losing the cultural war on this issue. We have become soft and too timid. In order to avoid hurting the feelings of those with same-sex attractions, Christians end up watering down or doing outright violence to Christ’s Truth. Stemming this foul tide is going to involve much more in the way of legal, social and cultural action.

I hope you don’t plan to deliver us a another load of unloving rhetoric, like you did in the other thread. I am interested in what loving steps we need to take as Christian to fight this?

Kendy

 

[Other_Eric]

I hope you don’t plan to deliver us a another load of unloving rhetoric, like you did in the other thread. I am interested in what loving steps we need to take as Christian to fight this?

Kendy

You must not confuse “unpleasant” with “unloving.” The most immediate way to affect the loving conversion of those with same-sex attractions is at the ballot box. As pointed out recently by Catholic Answers Apologist, Michelle Arnold:

Although laws do not determine morality, they can influence how people understand morality. There is a story told of President Lyndon Johnson, in which the President was warned against signing the Civil Rights Act; the naysayers telling the President that most Americans didn’t agree that discrimination should be against the law. Didn’t matter, he was said to have barked, Americans would go along with it once discrimination was against the law and even begin to see it as immoral. (1)

Analogously, if the law were brought more forcefully to bear on the issue of same-sex attractions, by criminalizing their practice, endorsement or advocacy, the culture will eventually come back around to see the truth of the matter. If, through legislation and appropriate governance, we can unmask the homosexual lifestyle for the foul, loathsome thing that it is we will have gone a long way to saving such individuals from eternal death.

(1) Arnold, Michelle. “Would banning abortion lead to infanticide?” Catholic Answers Forums. February 2, 2007. Available online at: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=131922

 

[mlchance]

Slightly off-topic: Tim who?

Hmm. Suddenly I feel like re-reading Much Ado About Nothing.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Kendy]

Slightly off-topic: Tim who?

Hmm. Suddenly I feel like re-reading Much Ado About Nothing.

– Mark L. Chance.

It’s not important. I didn’t know who he was until today. He’s a basketball player.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I suspect that Western Civilization is doomed. I can’t say for sure. I don’t know the future. However, unless Christians can retake lost ground civiliation is doomed. Secularism is worse than a house built upon sand. I call it a second floor condo without a first floor. Read Pope Benedicts’, Christianity and the Crisis of Cultures. He knows the bind we are in. Let’s join him in outspoken loyalty to the truth and pay the price if necessary.

CDL

 

[Jaypeeto3]

I suspect GregoryPalamas is 100% correct, and I think
we are past the point of no return.

Immorality is being glorified in Law,
and you can’t even have a job in most companies in America today without being forced to attend Diversity Training (forced indoctrination into Liberal values, or rather the lack thereof).
Most major companies (including the one I work for)
promote homosexuality actively, sponsoring various gay events and happenings. There is no natural way for us to undo all of this in our own strength.

We should redouble our efforts to strengthen our own Faith and the Faith of our loved ones and friends, spread the Gospel, and pray for deliverance from these incredibly Evil Times we live in.

I seem to remember reading that a great number of Saints throughout history have predicted a Great Chastisement and a Three Days Darkness for our day and age. It may well happen. I’m definitely ordering a blessed beeswax candle.
Pray the Rosary,
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)

 

[wjp984]

What is so wrong with allowing gays to be together and live in a state of mortal sin if that is their choice? I of course think it is wrong but I also think that divorce is wrong and getting remarried outside the church without an annulment is wrong. Unlike abortion where a human’s life is at stake, this mortal sin doesn’t seem to warrrant anything illegal. To me it would be no different than the person who remarries outside the church without an annulment. Do not think by this post that I agree with gay marriage; I agree with the church’s opinion, would vote against gay marriage and would also try to find all the reasons why it should not be allowed based on secular grounds. I just don’t think it will be the end of the world if gay marriage becomes legal. It will just be one more mortal sin that has become acceptable such as divorce and adultery. However, I do think that our religious beliefs need to be respected. There should be some sort of compromise where Catholic adoption agencies would not be required to give children out to gay couples.

 

[Kendy]

I suspect GregoryPalamas is 100% correct, and I think
we are past the point of no return.

Immorality is being glorified in Law,
and you can’t even have a job in most companies in America today without being forced to attend Diversity Training (forced indoctrination into Liberal values, or rather the lack thereof).
Most major companies (including the one I work for)
promote homosexuality actively, sponsoring various gay events and happenings. There is no natural way for us to undo all of this in our own strength.

We should redouble our efforts to strengthen our own Faith and the Faith of our loved ones and friends, spread the Gospel, and pray for deliverance from these incredibly Evil Times we live in.

I seem to remember reading that a great number of Saints throughout history have predicted a Great Chastisement and a Three Days Darkness for our day and age. It may well happen. I’m definitely ordering a blessed beeswax candle.
Pray the Rosary,
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)

I have never heard about this three day of darkness. Tell me more.

 

[Kendy]

What is so wrong with allowing gays to get married anyways? I of course think it is wrong but I also think that divorce is wrong and getting remarried outside the church without an annulment is wrong. Unlike abortion where a human’s life is at stake, this mortal sin doesn’t seem to warrrant anything illegal. To me it would be no different than the person who remarries outside the church without an annulment. Again I agree with the church’s opinion, would vote against gay marriage and would also try to find all the reasons why it should not be allowed based on secular grounds. I just don’t think it will be the end of the world if gay marriage becomes legal. It will just be one more mortal sin that has become acceptable such as divorce and adultery.

Well, one more mortal sin that as become acceptable is a serious problem. Although I don’t want to see gay marriage legalized, that’s not the point I am debating here. I am debating the fact that homosexual lifestyle has been embraced by our culture.

I think the acceptance of divorce and other mortal sin is why we are seeing this trend. We have opened pendora’s box.