Love Oneself First -- The basis?

[KyivAndrew]

I have suffered from depression myself and I know many others who have also suffered. I believe that both of you are wrong. The thought of suicide is the result of desperation because of the pain. There is no one so misinformed as a doctor in love with his own ideas.

And most of them will tell you with no embarassment, that they are atheists, and that if there is a god the doctor will say it would have to be himself. Furthermore the standard line from all of them is that everyone in the world is in need of therapy, even all the other doctors, and the doctor himself is the only one in the world sane enough to provide the treatment.

That doctors have a god complex is not a joke. It is the way they really are. I took the time to ask.

O.K. and if you don’t mind, God Bless You. Thank you for your honesty. I can see where you are coming from and, with respect to certain doctors that is true enough.

Andrew.

 

[geometer]

O.K. and if you don’t mind, God Bless You. Thank you for your honesty. I can see where you are coming from and, with respect to certain doctors that is true enough.

Well, thank you for hearing me. But, you might be surprized if you put a few questions along this line to your cousin. Certainly, I would be surprized if he can tell you that he is not an atheist.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Well, thank you for hearing me. But, you might be surprized if you put a few questions along this line to your cousin. Certainly, I would be surprized if he can tell you that he is not an atheist.

I will next time. His daughter had a Catholic marriage but it’s one of those things - deep religious questions - that I can ask certain of my cousins that I’m only close with. That particular cousin is 20 years older than I am. When asking certain psychiatrists it is true - many will actually be non-interested in the question of God’s existence or Assistance. I find some do though feel if a person throws all their cares on God, that this is a step that is in the right direction. If a person can convince themselves in the midst of ultimate despair that God loves him or her as he/she is, I think the person has a better chance of accepting oneself, warts and all, and be less prone to acts such as suicide or self-destructive behavior. I think it is a question of self-acceptance and not self-love.

I believe accepting the reality of a loving God who created you exactly the way you are actually relieves people suffering from clinical depression of the extreme guilt they may feel in not being 100% healthy for their family, loved ones, or even to themselves. If one accepts that this is part of God’s plan for a person it does make life slightly easier to the person undergoing such trials. The part for me that is difficult is that there is still a stigma attached to mental illness in society which makes people suffer both mentally and physically. As one psychiatrist in a city next to mine said: in a hospital where people are recovering from physical illness, she will always find tons of flowers from loved ones and well-wishers. In the mental health hospitals, there are barely any flowers for the patients, as if it is not really an illness. Today’s lepers, so to speak, in a certain way. It is sad.

 

[geometer]

I will next time. His daughter had a Catholic marriage but it’s one of those things - deep religious questions - that I can ask certain of my cousins that I’m only close with. That particular cousin is 20 years older than I am. When asking certain psychiatrists it is true - many will actually be non-interested in the question of God’s existence or Assistance. I find some do though feel if a person throws all their cares on God, that this is a step that is in the right direction. If a person can convince themselves in the midst of ultimate despair that God loves him or her as he/she is, I think the person has a better chance of accepting oneself, warts and all, and be less prone to acts such as suicide or self-destructive behavior. I think it is a question of self-acceptance and not self-love.

Well, if you find the opportunity to ask some question I really would like to hear how it all sorts out. You might send me a private message through this forum.

And I can understand the problem with guilt because of stigma, but it is about needing the attention of others. People become isolated from this and isolation can lead to suicide. Its more a case of being starved than creating the problem yourself through hate. Guilt and sadness simply are not the same as hate.

I believe accepting the reality of a loving God who created you exactly the way you are actually relieves people suffering from clinical depression of the extreme guilt they may feel in not being 100% healthy for their family, loved ones, or even to themselves. If one accepts that this is part of God’s plan for a person it does make life slightly easier to the person undergoing such trials. The part for me that is difficult is that there is still a stigma attached to mental illness in society which makes people suffer both mentally and physically. As one psychiatrist in a city next to mine said: in a hospital where people are recovering from physical illness, she will always find tons of flowers from loved ones and well-wishers. In the mental health hospitals, there are barely any flowers for the patients, as if it is not really an illness. Today’s lepers, so to speak, in a certain way. It is sad.

The tendency to isolate and ignore a person with any kind of mental affliction is a natural reflex. There may be no practical way to change that. It is a sad and sometimes tragic circumstance, but we can not justifiably condemn each other for our reflexes.

I believe that homophobia for instance is rooted in just that a common reflex.

 

[Cruciform]

…in many cases it is attributable to self-hate, low self-esteem, self-disgust…

What do they hate about themselves? That they’re overweight? That they can’t make their marriage or friendships work? That they’re stuck in a pointless job? That their nose is too big? So I ask: Who was ever upset that someone they hated was overweight, had a bad marriage, loathed his job, or had a big nose? No one. No, If one actually hated himself, he’d be glad that he was overweight, had a troubled marriage, hated his job, and had a big nose! There’s a huge difference between hating one’s circumstances, and hating oneself.

On the contrary, it’s precisely because he values and cares for himself that all these things bother him so much. It’s just as Jesus and Paul assumed—we are all innate lovers of self. It’s simply a part of our human nature.

Have you ever dealt in your entire life with people suffering from this disease or are you merely expressing your personal opinion of what goes through a suicide’s brain? Do you have the inside track based upon something I am not aware of as to how you understand suicide so clearly so as to describe any position opposite yours as simply “invalid”.

To this point, I’ve simply been discussing this from a biblical and theological understanding of the human person. I wouldn’t bother to base my views on my personal experiences, since my experiences may not be applicable to anyone but myself, and are intrinsically subjective. In any case (and not that it’s really any of your business), I can tell you that I’m personally very well-familiar with depression and its effects.

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+