Loved One involved with "The Work" of Gurdjieff

[RuthViolet]

Hello,
I have a loved one who went through a very dark and difficult period over the last few years since his dad died. He appeared very depressed and seemed to have lost his sense of faith (He has never been strong in Catholicism - was baptized as baby but never attended church regularly). I had become worried about his mental and spiritual state but felt at a loss of what to do as talking about concerns made things worse. So when he talked about attending meetings with “Christian-based” people to do something they called “the work” I was relieved. However, even though he has been attending for over a year now, he just did not seem happy or different in any way as I might have expected from someone who was working on their faith in Christ. He actually has seemed to become angrier, more secretive and much less willing to admit to mistakes. Then I googled the name of the guy whose books he has been pouring over for the last year, and whose ideas this “work” is based upon and I became alarmed and frightened. The name is Gurdjieff and it appears new agey, and generally wacky to me. I am a recent “return” to the Catholic church, and have heard for a little while the dangers of new age ideas as far as their opposition to Christianity and serving Christ. I think what bothers me the most about the things I have read about Gurdjieff and his “work” is that he claims he is an “esoteric Christian”. This kind of evasive title is very worrisome. Also, when I asked my loved one what his beliefs or faith are, his reply was “mostly Christian”. He also stated that he believes that Jesus learned ancient teachings from the Sufis. It was all sounding heartbreakingly bizarre.
I believe trying to convert him verbally or trying to debate this with him will do nothing but make things much much worse in an already difficult relationship between us. He would certainly become angry and dig in his heels to defend what he is doing. He is someone who has always been open and vulnerable to certain kinds of strong male personalities, and this Gurdjieff from the biographies I have read appears to fit the bill.
Does anyone know of this stuff on Gurdjieff, and also what the Catholic Church’s opinion is of him?
Also, any advice on best way to help my friend? I am praying, but specific prayers, saints who can intercede, etc. would be much appreciated!
Also, has anyone else loved someone involved in this Gurdjieff group stuff and if so what was your experience?
Thank you,
RuthViolet

 

[edwest2]

Hello,
I have a loved one who went through a very dark and difficult period over the last few years since his dad died. He appeared very depressed and seemed to have lost his sense of faith (He has never been strong in Catholicism - was baptized as baby but never attended church regularly). I had become worried about his mental and spiritual state but felt at a loss of what to do as talking about concerns made things worse. So when he talked about attending meetings with “Christian-based” people to do something they called “the work” I was relieved. However, even though he has been attending for over a year now, he just did not seem happy or different in any way as I might have expected from someone who was working on their faith in Christ. He actually has seemed to become angrier, more secretive and much less willing to admit to mistakes. Then I googled the name of the guy whose books he has been pouring over for the last year, and whose ideas this “work” is based upon and I became alarmed and frightened. The name is Gurdjieff and it appears new agey, and generally wacky to me. I am a recent “return” to the Catholic church, and have heard for a little while the dangers of new age ideas as far as their opposition to Christianity and serving Christ. I think what bothers me the most about the things I have read about Gurdjieff and his “work” is that he claims he is an “esoteric Christian”. This kind of evasive title is very worrisome. Also, when I asked my loved one what his beliefs or faith are, his reply was “mostly Christian”. He also stated that he believes that Jesus learned ancient teachings from the Sufis. It was all sounding heartbreakingly bizarre.
I believe trying to convert him verbally or trying to debate this with him will do nothing but make things much much worse in an already difficult relationship between us. He would certainly become angry and dig in his heels to defend what he is doing. He is someone who has always been open and vulnerable to certain kinds of strong male personalities, and this Gurdjieff from the biographies I have read appears to fit the bill.
Does anyone know of this stuff on Gurdjieff, and also what the Catholic Church’s opinion is of him?
Also, any advice on best way to help my friend? I am praying, but specific prayers, saints who can intercede, etc. would be much appreciated!
Also, has anyone else loved someone involved in this Gurdjieff group stuff and if so what was your experience?
Thank you,
RuthViolet

Hello Ruth,

Welcome back. First of all, avoid confrontation. Pray the rosary and pray to God for guidance. Pray daily, even on days where you feel it’s not doing much good.

Gurdjieff has invented his own version of Christianity and everything he has written are his ideas based on what he considers other truths. He thinks the Catholic Church lost its way long ago. Here is a definition of The Work:

“The Work is in essence a training in the development of consciousness. During his lifetime Gurdjieff used a number of different methods and materials, including meetings, music, movements (sacred dance), writings, lectures, and innovative forms of group and individual work. Part of the function of these various methods was to undermine and undo the ingrained habit patterns of the mind and bring about moments of insight. Since each individual has different requirements, Gurdjieff did not have a one-size-fits-all approach, and he adapted and innovated as circumstance required.[34] In Russia he was described as keeping his teaching confined to a small circle,[35] whereas in Paris and North America he gave numerous public demonstrations.[36]”

Now, whatever emotional issues this loved one has, the meetings he may be attending may not even be about The Work. Is he paying money to attend these meetings? Do you know where they are held? There are fakes out there who borrow esoteric teachings, but it’s really all about getting rich in the end. And then disappearing.

Who is his guardian? Is his mother or other relatives still alive? For some people, a death in the family brings about a desire for finding another way to deal with life. And, for some, being part of an esoteric group may be a way to cope. However, it does not sound like it’s helping.

My suggestion is to simply say “I’m there for you if you ever need me,” but if your relationship with this person is not even workable at that level, remember, God loves him and He understands the struggles both of you are going through. This does sound like something that God can and will intervene in with time. We live in a world that is presented to us as impatient. Learn to trust in God and hold to your faith.

God bless you,
Ed

 

[Julia_Mae]

Hello,
I have a loved one who went through a very dark and difficult period over the last few years since his dad died. He appeared very depressed and seemed to have lost his sense of faith (He has never been strong in Catholicism - was baptized as baby but never attended church regularly). I had become worried about his mental and spiritual state but felt at a loss of what to do as talking about concerns made things worse. So when he talked about attending meetings with “Christian-based” people to do something they called “the work” I was relieved. However, even though he has been attending for over a year now, he just did not seem happy or different in any way as I might have expected from someone who was working on their faith in Christ. He actually has seemed to become angrier, more secretive and much less willing to admit to mistakes. Then I googled the name of the guy whose books he has been pouring over for the last year, and whose ideas this “work” is based upon and I became alarmed and frightened. The name is Gurdjieff and it appears new agey, and generally wacky to me. I am a recent “return” to the Catholic church, and have heard for a little while the dangers of new age ideas as far as their opposition to Christianity and serving Christ. I think what bothers me the most about the things I have read about Gurdjieff and his “work” is that he claims he is an “esoteric Christian”. This kind of evasive title is very worrisome. Also, when I asked my loved one what his beliefs or faith are, his reply was “mostly Christian”. He also stated that he believes that Jesus learned ancient teachings from the Sufis. It was all sounding heartbreakingly bizarre.

Well, the problem with Jesus learning anything from the Sufis is, that Mohammed was born 600 years after the Resurrection. So it’s kinda hard for Jesus to learn anything from Muslim mysticism which wouldn’t exist for at least , oh, 675 years, I’d say.

Cults operate by separating the person from their immediate support and culture. They claim to have the REAL truth and claim only a few can really understand and “outsiders” who question do so because they cannot possibly understand.

Of course, the family and friends help this along by doing the questioning, and the more you argue, the more defensive the person becomes. The cult provides family, acceptance, purpose and parameters: control in a world that is scarily out of control in the person’s mind.

So, what do you do? Trust the Holy Spirit and pray for him daily. Like a whole chaplet or rosary. With him, avoid the topic. Try to spend time with him in the most normal pursuits you can think of. Go shopping, walk in the park in daylight where children play, invite him to your home and have friends there, play gin rummy. When he talks about it, listen politely and then change the subject.

If he drifts away completely, don’t stop praying. And don’t argue, or if he starts to question on his own, he might be too embarrassed to contact you. Be positive, gentle and determinedly cheerful. Most of these cults aren’t as bad as Jim Jones et al. And who knows? It might be the place God led him for a while knowing he will not stay forever but it will bring him Home.

Have faith.

 

[omegapd]

Agree wholeheartedly with the rosary and also look into the green scapular. You and him will be in my prayers. God Bless you both.

 

[RuthViolet]

Hello Ruth,
Hi Ed,

Thank you for this information!

As far as paying them money, no I do not believe he pays them to attend. My main concern is that due to his upbringing (Dad a domineering atheist, and Mom a new age, rather dependent, sampler type person with a well-meaning heart) He is very vulnerable to falling under the spell of father figures like his dad – who as I read about gurdjieff, his dad was extremely similar. Even though Gurdjieff is dead, now that this friend’s father is dead for last couple years, maybe he is looking to connect with his dad in some weird way. Anyway, what do I know, it may be something else entirely. Anyhow, I have a strong opinion about people denying Christ as being highly vulnerable and now that he is following this Gurdjieff he is most certainly going to deny Christ as who He really is. Very painful to watch. I am especially worried about spiritual warfare going on. It seems to me that the Devil just loves to prey on vulnerable people especially, and when you throw in someone who is starting to align with ideas that are anti-Christ, what a great recipe for disaster.

This may be a spiritual journey for me as I learn to trust God and grow my faith by stepping out of this and not giving advice or opinions to my friend but just being there for him as you said. Excellent idea. I will continue to pray the rosary even when it does not seem to be doing anything. I agree, this will most certainly grow my faith in God and hopefully my friend will choose God and Christ in the process as well somewhere down the line.

Thank you Ed, and God Bless you too!
RuthViolet

Welcome back. First of all, avoid confrontation. Pray the rosary and pray to God for guidance. Pray daily, even on days where you feel it’s not doing much good.

Gurdjieff has invented his own version of Christianity and everything he has written are his ideas based on what he considers other truths. He thinks the Catholic Church lost its way long ago. Here is a definition of The Work:

“The Work is in essence a training in the development of consciousness. During his lifetime Gurdjieff used a number of different methods and materials, including meetings, music, movements (sacred dance), writings, lectures, and innovative forms of group and individual work. Part of the function of these various methods was to undermine and undo the ingrained habit patterns of the mind and bring about moments of insight. Since each individual has different requirements, Gurdjieff did not have a one-size-fits-all approach, and he adapted and innovated as circumstance required.[34] In Russia he was described as keeping his teaching confined to a small circle,[35] whereas in Paris and North America he gave numerous public demonstrations.[36]”

Now, whatever emotional issues this loved one has, the meetings he may be attending may not even be about The Work. Is he paying money to attend these meetings? Do you know where they are held? There are fakes out there who borrow esoteric teachings, but it’s really all about getting rich in the end. And then disappearing.

Who is his guardian? Is his mother or other relatives still alive? For some people, a death in the family brings about a desire for finding another way to deal with life. And, for some, being part of an esoteric group may be a way to cope. However, it does not sound like it’s helping.

My suggestion is to simply say “I’m there for you if you ever need me,” but if your relationship with this person is not even workable at that level, remember, God loves him and He understands the struggles both of you are going through. This does sound like something that God can and will intervene in with time. We live in a world that is presented to us as impatient. Learn to trust in God and hold to your faith.

God bless you,
Ed

 

[RuthViolet]

Hello Julia Mae and Omegapd,

Thank you so much for your prayers! We can certainly use them.

Omegapd, what is the green scapular? Any tools I am told about I will look into and use! Cannot have enough to help in this spiritual battle – which I do believe is part of spiritual warfare going on around us.

RuthViolet

 

[anulios]

Hello RuthViolet,

As someone who has been trying to follow and practice Gurdjieff’s teachings for over 30 years I felt I wanted to write in response to your post and offer you some reassurance.

Gurdjieff was an extraordinary man who spent many years travelling to various monasteries and holy sites in Asia and the Middle East in search of answers to his questions regarding the meaning of life, often undertaking journeys that were extremely arduous and dangerous. Then in the 1920’s he then began to teach what he had learned and continued until his death in 1949. His work was continued by Mme de Salzmann, his closest pupil, and she established organisations or “Foundations” in New York, Paris and London which are still the main centres of the Work today.

The “definition of the Work” posted by Ed is a pretty good and accurate summary. Of course there’s also a lot of material on the internet that misrepresents Gurdjieff, either through innocent misunderstanding or intention, and it’s inevitable that some will take a quote or an idea out of context and distort its meaning.

I would say that if your loved one is a member of a group affiliated to one of the Gurdjieff Foundations then you have nothing to worry about - they are in no way cults and if at some point he wishes to leave no-one will try and persuade him to stay.

Apart from the Foundations there are a number of other organisations that purport to transmit Gurdjieff’s ideas. Many of them are very good and benevolent, but some are not so good and are best avoided.

I do hope I’ve managed to put your mind at rest to some extent at least. Let me know if I can help further.

With best wishes,

Robert.

 

[dazg]

I wouldnt worry too much. I have read some books about Gurdjieff,(He died in 1949) and he regularly used to try and put people off from joining his group, beliving that very few people were comited enough to follow it through. The local groups may not be too different. But unless they are completely polarized from what Gurdjieff taught, they are very far from being any sort of worrying cult.

Gurdjieff journeyed much in his youth and apparently ended up at an extremely remote ancient Christain monestary in Kafirstan on the Border of Afghansitan and Pakistan. The word Kafir means ‘infidel’ or non muslim. This was the name the locals gave to the people there, as they were non muslim (Christian).

All we know about the monestary is that it was from an exteremly old brotherhood of monks, who were in that region before Mohammed, and therfore taught a very old version of Christianity. Incorparating in to it some of the local ways, as always happens. In this case, music and dance amongst other things. The importance of contantly being aware of the .now’ moment is an intrinsic part of the teaching. ie:So many of us let our ‘Robot’ do our living. The robot is the thing that drives our car to work for us whilst our minds are elsewhere and not taking any notice of what we are doing in the present. The robot is a good thing to have in the modern world. But the real ‘us’ is the part of us that might have taken a long time to learn to drive, or learn any new skill. When something is difficult, its the real me that does the learning. Then goes back to sleep as soon as we have taught the robot how to do it. Gurdgieff taught that the trouble is, the robot gets used to being there and lets us sleep our lives away if we are not careful. To be contantly in the moment is what he taught. This is very very difficult. ust try being aware of yourself for 20 minutes, your mind very quickly forgets and wanders.

As to actual religion. Im sure nobody in his ‘work’ group would care a hoot if your loved one became a comitted Catholic, or any other religion for that matter. The ‘work’ is not about religion as such. Or at least that was the impression I got from what i read.

Someone above gave the advice of just being a good friend to him and remimd him of your support should he ever need it. That was sage advice indeed.

Best of luck.