Low birth rates

[pensmama87]

What he said.

Chances are that this taboo subject (rightfully so) may be part of the answer to the OP. Those who feel that way probably avoid a second child. It’s impossible to know how prevalent this is, but perhaps the lower birthrates are driven largely by this.

I’m reminded of a colleague of my husband’s who is shocked that I handle three kids so well. She doesn’t believe me when I say it’s easier now than it was was when I just had one. Objectively it’s more work, but I have the experience that makes newborn tasks easier, and my husband and I are better at supporting each other and we have a better community.

I doubt she actually hates being a mother, but I notice that she and her husband are older, they both spend a lot of time away from their daughter (they both work and volunteer for a billion things.) I think I’d feel burned out too if I had just tried tacking on “plus kid” to my pre-kid adult life.

I do think society at large has really unworkable expectations for parenthood and motherhood in particular. And not everyone is meant to be a parent. That’s okay. But I still think we’d do better to address our wacky expectations, individual and societal, than blame it on the kids.

I realize here that you’re being descriptive rather than prescriptive, and not saying that the reasons are particularly good. I’m just musing about it “out loud” (or rather via keyboard.)

 

[bitterhope]

What he said.

Chances are that this taboo subject (rightfully so) may be part of the answer to the OP. Those who feel that way probably avoid a second child. It’s impossible to know how prevalent this is, but perhaps the lower birthrates are driven largely by this.

I know a mother who birth gave to her 5th child in March who very loudly (unfortunately in front of her kids) vocalizes how much she hates, hates, hates having children. She says motherhood is the worst thing she ever did. She continues having children though. I asked her why and she says she doesn’t know. But she thinks she may be expecting again. I have suspicions as to why she “hates” motherhood and why she chooses not to do anything about it (she’s not Catholic), but she won’t admit any of them. I babysit her kids so they at least know and trust me with things they can’t feel comfortable with saying to mom. Dad is a great parent though. What can be done for someone that chooses not to do anything to help themselves?

My suspicions about birth rates dropping is the children of mothers who hate motherhood, even those that are not nearly as vocal about it, are raising children to view parenting as a bad thing. Kids feed off their mothers emotions more than we realize. They feel her feelings even as she attempts to hide them. And they become ashamed of themselves for causing their parents grief instead of happiness. This translates into “kids are bad and never have them” in their minds. Imagine what’s going to happen when these kids find posts on the Internet, in magazines, in newspapers, and figure out it’s THEIR mom that can’t stand being around being a mother and caring for them.

Moms that are struggling aren’t necessarily harming their children though. We all have times where we aren’t enjoying life. How we handle things and the way we express this to our kids makes a big difference in how they learn to cope with less than ideal situations in their own adulthoods. Healthy coping skills and reaching out to others when needed is the example we need to be setting. It’s a great way to teach kids to be ping pong balls and bounce back instead of eggs that splatter. Resiliency makes life more enjoyable.

 

[Sarcelle]

To be fair to mothers, some children are more challenging than others.

My mother said that if she had to do it over again, she would have my siblings and not me. Why? Because I was special needs, I have autism. I was a challenge to her.

Can’t say I blame her. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t born me. Maybe I would be better off being someone else.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

To be fair to mothers, some children are more challenging than others.

My mother said that if she had to do it over again, she would have my siblings and not me. Why? Because I was special needs, I have autism. I was a challenge to her.

Can’t say I blame her. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t born me. Maybe I would be better off being someone else.

Wow. I’m speechless…

 

[bitterhope]

To be fair to mothers, some children are more challenging than others.

My mother said that if she had to do it over again, she would have my siblings and not me. Why? Because I was special needs, I have autism. I was a challenge to her.

Can’t say I blame her. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t born me. Maybe I would be better off being someone else.

Yes some kids are harder but that’s a terrible thing for a mother to say. I’ve got kids with special needs so I’m aware that things can be tougher. They are also so much more rewarding.

I’m glad you were born you. The world would be a different place without you in it. God makes no mistakes and no junk. He created you perfectly in His image to reflect a piece of Him that no one else can. Your post really hurt my heart. I’ve met so many people that feel like that and it never fails to hurt me. I’m praying for you and your mom, so you can both find the beauty inside of the life God created when you were conceived, and that you may both feel the joy that filled heaven when you were baptized.

 

[tomarin]

To be fair to mothers, some children are more challenging than others.

My mother said that if she had to do it over again, she would have my siblings and not me. Why? Because I was special needs, I have autism. I was a challenge to her.

Can’t say I blame her. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t born me. Maybe I would be better off being someone else.

I’m really sorry your mother was so cruel to you. That’s simply unfathomable.

 

[Sarcelle]

I’m really sorry your mother was so cruel to you. That’s simply unfathomable.

She has asked for forgiveness and I have forgiven her.

This was all in the past and the intent of my post was to point out that society has saddled mothers with some expectations that frankly are too high. It is normal for mothers to feel overwhelmed and sometimes say things that they regret later on.

 

[bitterhope]

She has asked for forgiveness and I have forgiven her.

This was all in the past and the intent of my post was to point out that society has saddled mothers with some expectations that frankly are too high. It is normal for mothers to feel overwhelmed and sometimes say things that they regret later on.

Feeling overwhelmed is normal. Saying cruel things is uncalled for and never alright. It can never be accepted as a normal part of life. That’s something most of us learn in childhood.

I’m glad you have forgiven her and I’m glad she has realized it was wrong.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

She has asked for forgiveness and I have forgiven her.

This was all in the past and the intent of my post was to point out that society has saddled mothers with some expectations that frankly are too high. It is normal for mothers to feel overwhelmed and sometimes say things that they regret later on.

Some things are normal and some are not. It would not be normal, for instance, for a mother to tell a disabled child she wished they were not born but the siblings were. That is honestly one of the cruelest and horrid things I’ve heard someone say to another. And I’ve heard some horrid things…

I’m glad resolution and forgiveness was achieved. For your sake!

 

[Lea101]

My mom worked in childcare and then comes home in the evening to deal with us

I’m sure she loved kids, but her life seemed like such a nightmare. Kids 24/7. She had 0 patience when she came home, and especially -10000 patience for me and my sister, we are those type of children that will cling onto her (metaphorically) and just keep talking about nonsensical issues. She said girls are more difficult to raise than boys and she was just plain exhausted. Makes me want to have fewer kids that I originally wanted, to be quite honest.

I definitely agree with the point that children absorb parents’ view on this. I have always felt guilty for being around. We did have nice memories, and I do miss her. I know she tried her hardest, moms go through so much.

 

[Xantippe]

I know a mother who birth gave to her 5th child in March who very loudly (unfortunately in front of her kids) vocalizes how much she hates, hates, hates having children. She says motherhood is the worst thing she ever did. She continues having children though. I asked her why and she says she doesn’t know. But she thinks she may be expecting again. I have suspicions as to why she “hates” motherhood and why she chooses not to do anything about it (she’s not Catholic), but she won’t admit any of them. I babysit her kids so they at least know and trust me with things they can’t feel comfortable with saying to mom. Dad is a great parent though. What can be done for someone that chooses not to do anything to help themselves?

My suspicions about birth rates dropping is the children of mothers who hate motherhood, even those that are not nearly as vocal about it, are raising children to view parenting as a bad thing. Kids feed off their mothers emotions more than we realize. They feel her feelings even as she attempts to hide them. And they become ashamed of themselves for causing their parents grief instead of happiness. This translates into “kids are bad and never have them” in their minds. Imagine what’s going to happen when these kids find posts on the Internet, in magazines, in newspapers, and figure out it’s THEIR mom that can’t stand being around being a mother and caring for them.

I think it’s very much the husband’s responsibility to read and manage the situation if his wife is struggling with motherhood. For instance, there may be a medical component in play (postpartum or prenatal depression or lots of other things) that isn’t being managed correctly. (If I were this woman’s OB/GYN, I would be very concerned right now.)

Unfortunately, this is often a weak point with husbands of struggling wives–they don’t notice the problem or they don’t know what to do about it. It’s not necessarily that they don’t care, but that they expect their wives to take care of themselves and other people even in situations where that really isn’t reasonable. (Case in point–Rusty Yates.)

We hear a lot about husbands and leadership, but I think some of the most common failures in leadership involve men not noticing that their wives are going under or not realizing that keeping their wives from going under is part of their job.

 

[bitterhope]

I think it’s very much the husband’s responsibility to read and manage the situation if his wife is struggling with motherhood. For instance, there may be a medical component in play (postpartum or prenatal depression or lots of other things) that isn’t being managed correctly. (If I were this woman’s OB/GYN, I would be very concerned right now.)

Unfortunately, this is often a weak point with husbands of struggling wives–they don’t notice the problem or they don’t know what to do about it. It’s not necessarily that they don’t care, but that they expect their wives to take care of themselves and other people even in situations where that really isn’t reasonable. (Case in point–Rusty Yates.)

We hear a lot about husbands and leadership, but I think some of the most common failures in leadership involve men not noticing that their wives are going under or not realizing that keeping their wives from going under is part of their job.

This family situation is far more complicated than that. As I said, they aren’t Catholic, and husband is only dad to the youngest (and I assume he is to the possible new baby). The other kids all have different dads and most of them are not in the picture. But husband takes care of all of them as his own. He does the drop off/pick up 5 out of 6 days a week. Mom doesn’t work. She does takes online classes part time or something like that, but unless husband is home, kids are with me or with their grandparents. I’m glad that they have a good “dad” but it doesn’t make up for not having a mom. Dad has confided to me he is getting a vasectomy but I’m not convinced that’s going to change much. She left the last guy that did that for this one. It’s messed up. And as usual the kids are the ones to suffer. At times, two of the kids go live with bio dads but always get sent back to mom because step dad is stable while bio dads are in and out of jail. Poor kids are ping pong balls, bouncing around. Husband/dad figure wants out but knows if he leaves the kids are the ones to suffer most. He can’t get custody of step kids, just one (or 2?), and he doesn’t want them all seperated like that. All I can do is provide a home to stay at before and after school for the older kids and daycare for the little ones. Social services won’t do anything because the home with step dad is stable enough, and the kids are deeply loved and protected by him. But mom is just not willing to do a darn thing to get help, because she doesn’t see what the problem is. She sees nothing wrong with being just the way she is. She’s not depressed, she’s just selfish and lazy. I feel bad for people that are depressed, but she’s not one of them. She uses her ability to have children to keep a paycheck. She’s either got a man that won’t leave or at least child support and welfare checks rolling in. But her kids are going to grow up hating the idea of children because they are told daily his badly they’ve screwed up her life and how messy they are and how much she hates having to do basic care stuff. It’s very sad and all I can do beyond being there for the kids is pray for their family. Nothing she does reaches the legal definition of abuse or neglect.

 

[Xantippe]

This family situation is far more complicated than that. As I said, they aren’t Catholic, and husband is only dad to the youngest (and I assume he is to the possible new baby). The other kids all have different dads and most of them are not in the picture. But husband takes care of all of them as his own. He does the drop off/pick up 5 out of 6 days a week. Mom doesn’t work. She does takes online classes part time or something like that, but unless husband is home, kids are with me or with their grandparents. I’m glad that they have a good “dad” but it doesn’t make up for not having a mom. Dad has confided to me he is getting a vasectomy but I’m not convinced that’s going to change much. She left the last guy that did that for this one. It’s messed up. And as usual the kids are the ones to suffer. At times, two of the kids go live with bio dads but always get sent back to mom because step dad is stable while bio dads are in and out of jail. Poor kids are ping pong balls, bouncing around. Husband/dad figure wants out but knows if he leaves the kids are the ones to suffer most. He can’t get custody of step kids, just one (or 2?), and he doesn’t want them all seperated like that. All I can do is provide a home to stay at before and after school for the older kids and daycare for the little ones. Social services won’t do anything because the home with step dad is stable enough, and the kids are deeply loved and protected by him. But mom is just not willing to do a darn thing to get help, because she doesn’t see what the problem is. She sees nothing wrong with being just the way she is. She’s not depressed, she’s just selfish and lazy. I feel bad for people that are depressed, but she’s not one of them. She uses her ability to have children to keep a paycheck. She’s either got a man that won’t leave or at least child support and welfare checks rolling in. But her kids are going to grow up hating the idea of children because they are told daily his badly they’ve screwed up her life and how messy they are and how much she hates having to do basic care stuff. It’s very sad and all I can do beyond being there for the kids is pray for their family. Nothing she does reaches the legal definition of abuse or neglect.

Your story demonstrates nicely how a high birthrate in one generation can generate a low one in the next.

 

[pensmama87]

My mom worked in childcare and then comes home in the evening to deal with us

I’m sure she loved kids, but her life seemed like such a nightmare. Kids 24/7. She had 0 patience when she came home, and especially -10000 patience for me and my sister, we are those type of children that will cling onto her (metaphorically) and just keep talking about nonsensical issues. She said girls are more difficult to raise than boys and she was just plain exhausted. Makes me want to have fewer kids that I originally wanted, to be quite honest.

I definitely agree with the point that children absorb parents’ view on this. I have always felt guilty for being around. We did have nice memories, and I do miss her. I know she tried her hardest, moms go through so much.

I have noticed that I am now much, much kinder to my own children now that I am not babysitting additional children. I think if I had been caring for a different age group, or if my children were all older, it may have felt different, but yes, you can go a little wild when it’s endless diapers and mess cleaning and the various needs of small children.

One thing I’ve seen in the past few years is that the notion of respite care for elderly parents is catching on - regular breaks for in-home caregiving children. My aunt, who cared for my cousin who was severely disabled, had regular respite care until my cousin passed a few years ago. And this is where the advice for regular date nights or moms nights out, etc. comes in for moms of littles. It is draining and difficult to be with small children 24/7. When you have to do it, you do it, of course, but ideally you’ve got someone - your mom, a trusted neighbor or friend, your husband, even - so you can get a nap every now and then or go shopping alone. (I love when I get to go grocery shopping by myself!)

 

[Sarcelle]

I have noticed that I am now much, much kinder to my own children now that I am not babysitting additional children. I think if I had been caring for a different age group, or if my children were all older, it may have felt different, but yes, you can go a little wild when it’s endless diapers and mess cleaning and the various needs of small children.

One thing I’ve seen in the past few years is that the notion of respite care for elderly parents is catching on - regular breaks for in-home caregiving children. My aunt, who cared for my cousin who was severely disabled, had regular respite care until my cousin passed a few years ago. And this is where the advice for regular date nights or moms nights out, etc. comes in for moms of littles. It is draining and difficult to be with small children 24/7. When you have to do it, you do it, of course, but ideally you’ve got someone - your mom, a trusted neighbor or friend, your husband, even - so you can get a nap every now and then or go shopping alone. (I love when I get to go grocery shopping by myself!)

With the nuclear family no longer having the support of the extended family and communities getting more transient and fragmented, I can understand why a lot of Catholic couples fear the open to life mandate of the Church. Imagine having to take care of several children all under the age of five all by yourself while husband is at work.

 

[Sarcelle]

With the nuclear family no longer having the support of the extended family and communities getting more transient and fragmented, I can understand why a lot of Catholic couples fear the open to life mandate of the Church. Imagine having to take care of several children all under the age of five all by yourself while husband is at work.

Add to that special needs children and the difficulty goes up exponentially.

 

[pensmama87]

With the nuclear family no longer having the support of the extended family and communities getting more transient and fragmented, I can understand why a lot of Catholic couples fear the open to life mandate of the Church. Imagine having to take care of several children all under the age of five all by yourself while husband is at work.

Well, I don’t have to imagine it because that was my life for several years. And it was very, very hard. I’m starting to come out of the hardest part now because my oldest is in school, and my husband finally got a job where I didn’t have to take in additional children.

But, I do have the benefit of some nearby family that is actually helpful, I had a good therapist after my second was born who did a good job teaching me how to ask for help and how to know I needed it, and how to find friends who could take on some of the roles previously filled by family.

 

[Xantippe]

Well, I don’t have to imagine it because that was my life for several years. And it was very, very hard. I’m starting to come out of the hardest part now because my oldest is in school, and my husband finally got a job where I didn’t have to take in additional children.

But, I do have the benefit of some nearby family that is actually helpful, I had a good therapist after my second was born who did a good job teaching me how to ask for help and how to know I needed it, and how to find friends who could take on some of the roles previously filled by family.

Awwww!