Lucid dreaming, Is is allowed in the catholic faith?

[flamez3]

Hi, I’ve been recently interested in Lucid Dreaming, although i have never done any intentionally, I was wondering if The Church has told people what they think about it?

All i really want to do is to do cool things like fly around or run really fast, (i have had dreams like that before) but I’m worried that it might offend god and the catholic church? I do know that i should NOT be doing this that will be a sin in real life because it is occasion to sin, but i was wondering if were allowed to do it at all?

 

[Paul_theApostle]

I have also had many Flying dreams and they feel great.

I was told by someone (non church goer) that i was astral traveling when having these dreams.

Im not sure whether to believe that or not but would like to hear some advice about those dreams also.

 

[Reepicheep]

Lucid dreaming is merely the skill of being aware while one dreams, that one is dreaming.
I see no reason to think there’s anything harmful in it.

 

[PiousTemplar]

Lucid dreaming is merely the skill of being aware while one dreams, that one is dreaming.
I see no reason to think there’s anything harmful in it.

Yeah, but attempting to lucid dream for the intention of committing sin while dreaming is sinful in itself.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Tell me how pretending you can fly in a dream is any more sinful than a kid playing Superman.

 

[Joan1969]

Hi, I’ve been recently interested in Lucid Dreaming, although i have never done any intentionally, I was wondering if The Church has told people what they think about it?

All i really want to do is to do cool things like fly around or run really fast, (i have had dreams like that before) but I’m worried that it might offend god and the catholic church? I do know that i should NOT be doing this that will be a sin in real life because it is occasion to sin, but i was wondering if were allowed to do it at all?

Hi Flame,

I see no trouble in lucid dreaming in itself, but I would ask what sort of investment of time and mental effort is needed for deliberate achievement of lucid dreaming. This has nothing to bring to the table spiritually or for other people, but is more a method of entertaining oneself. So I would think carefully about whether different personal interests might not be better ways to use that time and attention.

Also, if discussing lucid dreaming with others gets you involved with a more new-age (“astral flying”) set of people, it could be harmful for that reason.

God Bless,
Joan

 

[DaveBj]

<personal opinion alert, others’ mileage may vary>

I don’t think that lucid dreaming is something that you can intentionally do; it occurs when you happen, actually within a dream, to realize that you are dreaming. For me, sometimes the trigger is seeing an airplace crash, or seeing a tornado (altho the latter didn’t work the afternoon of April 27 :bigyikes: )

If you realize that you are dreaming, and within the dream you do not choose to do anything that would be a sin in real life, I don’t think you have a problem. And I don’t think that flying like Superman is a sin.

Astral traveling? Yeah, right, like that’s anything more than someone’s imagination

 

[flamez3]

Hi Flame,
Also, if discussing lucid dreaming with others gets you involved with a more new-age (“astral flying”) set of people, it could be harmful for that reason.

God Bless,
Joan

I’m not using lucid dreaming for astral flying or projection. I’m merely trying to entertain myself in ways i couldn’t usually do in real life (such as flying).

 

[sojo]

Lucid dreaming is a very useful technique. I had several reccuring nightmares – nearly daily for over 25 years. They interrupted my sleep to the point where I became an insomniac, afraid to sleep at all. I woke up with heart pounding and unable to go back to sleep for hours.

Being able to 1) be aware that I am dreaming and the stuff happening isn’t real, and 2) being able to gently twist the story of the dream to a satisfactory ending has been a huge load off my sleep.

In the case of the recurring dreams - I simply faced the horror with the calm knowledge that nothing about the dream was real at all. My three or four recurring dreams all disappeared. Now when I face my fears in a nightmare, the nightmare ends, never to return.

And yes, I once had a dream (not recurring) that was seriously heading into a nightmare once about a year ago. It had to do with falling and heights. Instead, I turned it into a fantasy of flying through the air. The scary destination I was headed towards became heaven, and I was filled with a sense of peace and my regrets of my earthly life was ending faded away into my anticipation of the glorious life to come. I woke up refreshed and to this day, I cherish the feeling of swooping through the night sky towards a glowing future.

The technique is not very hard or involved. But maybe it is easier for me as I’m not a deep sleeper by any means. It is creative - I once had a dream where a whole bunch of enormous tigers were prowling around me. At first I thought they were beautiful, then I became frightened and concerned, and then I became aware this was a nightmare and imagined the tigers turning into frisky little cats that scampered and played, and then I had a gate appear before me with a friendly person who opened it with a smile, and I exited the field of tiger kitties. I often think to myself, “there, that’s ever so much better!”

I don’t see why any of this would be anti-Church teaching. It isn’t supernatural at all - simply getting a bit of control of some of our subconscious.

 

[Joan1969]

I’m not using lucid dreaming for astral flying or projection. I’m merely trying to entertain myself in ways i couldn’t usually do in real life (such as flying).

Hi Flamez,

I only made the astral flying reference because another poster did below. I realize you are not intersted in that aspect of it, but if in discussing lucid dreaming you get new-age oriented conversation started with, I’m suggesting that’s not heading in a good direction. I guess I was thinking more of the relationships that might get started than in anything you were actively “going for” right now.

I remember reading something about how to achive lucid dreaming, and what struck me is the time and attention involved, which is (IMO) not in proportion to what you get in return. There’s just so darned much good stuff out there to enjoy instead!!

God Bless,
Joan

 

[sojo]

Joan - my personal experience was it just took a few suggestions to myself before going to sleep, and I ignored most of the other stuff the technique involved. I was doing it in less than a week. Very easy, very quick.

OTH, I’m a pretty light sleeper and that might help. No doubt there might be some people who have to work at it harder. I learned how to do it from others who all found it fast and easy. All were doing it solely to control really bad, recurring nightmares. It seems once you break the cycle on a recurring nightmare, it never comes again.

Also - after so many years of lost sleep, trying to drive to work in a state of less than full capacity from exhaustion, and who knows what those cortisol baths were doing to my body night after night… it was a very easy, very quick solution. I only wish someone had taught me when I was really little as it was particularly difficult to have recurring nightmares as a child.

It is not worth it to me to do on a regular basis for recreational purposes - I just let my dreams come as they are for the most part. I figure the subconscious probably is generating dreams for the right reason. But the ability to adjust or wake up from a nightmare (and its easier to adjust than to wake up, BTW)… its a blessing. The only solution from the medical profession was heavy sleeping pills to force myself to sleep through the nightmares… but resulted in hangovers the next day, plus the expense of the pills.

 

[Joan1969]

Joan - my personal experience was it just took a few suggestions to myself before going to sleep, and I ignored most of the other stuff the technique involved. I was doing it in less than a week. Very easy, very quick.

OTH, I’m a pretty light sleeper and that might help. No doubt there might be some people who have to work at it harder. I learned how to do it from others who all found it fast and easy. All were doing it solely to control really bad, recurring nightmares. It seems once you break the cycle on a recurring nightmare, it never comes again.

Also - after so many years of lost sleep, trying to drive to work in a state of less than full capacity from exhaustion, and who knows what those cortisol baths were doing to my body night after night… it was a very easy, very quick solution. I only wish someone had taught me when I was really little as it was particularly difficult to have recurring nightmares as a child.

It is not worth it to me to do on a regular basis for recreational purposes - I just let my dreams come as they are for the most part. I figure the subconscious probably is generating dreams for the right reason. But the ability to adjust or wake up from a nightmare (and its easier to adjust than to wake up, BTW)… its a blessing. The only solution from the medical profession was heavy sleeping pills to force myself to sleep through the nightmares… but resulted in hangovers the next day, plus the expense of the pills.

Hi Sojo,

If it’s doing good for you, I’m all for it!

God Bless,
Joan

 

[Reepicheep]

Yeah, but attempting to lucid dream for the intention of committing sin while dreaming is sinful in itself.

I agree with this: but I see no evidence that the OP has any sinful intent. Lucid dreaming is not a sin in itself.

 

[EphelDuath]

Yeah, but attempting to lucid dream for the intention of committing sin while dreaming is sinful in itself.

Can you provide a citation for this? The purpose of dreams is to organize our thoughts, and so I’ve heard from multiple sources that it’s impossible to sin in our dreams.

 

[wcknight]

Since dreaming is completely non voluntary, I don’t see how it can be sinful.

I suppose one could try to influence what they dream about by focusing on something sinful before they fall asleep, but that in itself would be sinful, and there is no guarantee that you will actually dream about what you were focusing on.

Dreams can be useful and in some cultures, can prevent mental illness. Some folks tell their kids who have nightmares to imagine that they have powerful allies or weapons to combat their foes in their dreams. A tribe in Africa that does this is said not to have any problems with mental illness.

Personally when I am chased in a dream, I try to imagine I have the ability to jump extraordinarily high, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn’t … in the dream that is.

 

[Reepicheep]

Yeah, but attempting to lucid dream for the intention of committing sin while dreaming is sinful in itself.

Can you provide a citation for this? The purpose of dreams is to organize our thoughts, and so I’ve heard from multiple sources that it’s impossible to sin in our dreams.

Making plans to sin, and making preparations to sin, are both sins in their own right.
However, just planning to learn to lucid dream is not itself a sin.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Can you provide a citation for this? The purpose of dreams is to organize our thoughts, and so I’ve heard from multiple sources that it’s impossible to sin in our dreams.

The question you were responding to regarded trying (while awake) to do something to achieve a lucid dream state, so that you could then commit a sin in your dreams. The person was primarily talking about doing something while awake, so whether it is possible to sin in a dream doesn’t apply.

It is an interesting question though, whether the conventional wisdom that you can’t sin in dreams is correct. It seems to me it is not. I’ve had erotic dreams in which my conscience rebelled against what was initially happening and I forced it to stop. Other times I’ve had erotic dreams in which I consented to what was happening. Was my will really so compromised by the fact that I was asleep that there was absolutely no positive or negative moral character to either decision? Subjectively at least, it did not seem that way.

In my most fully lucid dreams, in which I was aware I was dreaming and all my actions were very deliberate, I have never done anything sinful. But if I chose to do so it seems very far-fetched that I would have no moral culpability for it whatsoever.

Sure, maybe you are not quite as in control as it subjectively feels like you are during a lucid dream, but it seems very counter-intuitive at least to suggest you are not really in control at all. Maybe it’s not possible to commit a true mortal sin while asleep due to the fact that you are not in a normal state of consciousness, but in episodes of relatively high lucidity it seems pretty plain to me that it is possible to at least commit venial sins.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

By the way I had no idea there were ways to cause yourself to have a lucid dream. I’ve had them, but they’ve just happened on their own. I also had no idea they were, apparently, so common, and flying during these times in particular. I’ve had other wierd sleep-related experiences and thought my brain was just a little screwy and prone to different not-quite-awake, not-quite-asleep states. Maybe it is, but apparently this particular experience of lucid dreaming is more common than I thought.

 

[EphelDuath]

Making plans to sin, and making preparations to sin, are both sins in their own right.
However, just planning to learn to lucid dream is not itself a sin.

This is circular logic. It’s a sin to plan to do something-that-would-be-sinful in real life in a lucid dream, because it’s a sin to make plans to sin? It’s only planning to sin if you’re already working under the assumption that it is a sin to do something-that-would-be-sinful in-real-life in a lucid dream.

I asked for a citation, by the way. I want an authoritative source on the matter rather than your personal opinion.

It is an interesting question though, whether the conventional wisdom that you can’t sin in dreams is correct. It seems to me it is not. I’ve had erotic dreams in which my conscience rebelled against what was initially happening and I forced it to stop. Other times I’ve had erotic dreams in which I consented to what was happening. Was my will really so compromised by the fact that I was asleep that there was absolutely no positive or negative moral character to either decision? Subjectively at least, it did not seem that way.

This assumes that you actually have control in your dreams, and it’s not an illusory effect of your mind organizing its own thoughts. Remember, dream logic doesn’t work the same way as real life logic. Also, consider the possibility that God is warning you of the consequences of a sin through your dreams; in which case, you’re not sinning but rather receiving an allegorical prophecy.

Disclaimer: my skepticism isn’t me saying you two are completely wrong, I’m just considering the options because nobody has provided any sort of Magisterial source on the matter thus far.

God bless.

 

[d543]

im so terrified of lucid dreaming. often, when i recognize a dream state while sleeping, i wake up in a cold sweat, thinking about horrible things. my sub conscience is too frightening for lucid dreams.