Luke 1:26 - 33

[agangbern]

o.k. let me see if I can explain. We agree Gabriel was speaking of the future. How far in the future is not known. What else was in her future? Her marriage to Joseph.
Gabriel tells her she shall conceive, when would YOU or any engaged person naturally think Gabriel was referring to?
There was no reason for Mary to even consider a conception outside of her marriage to Joseph.

Gabriel: Mary you shall conceive.
Mary: Well I hope so, after all that’s why I’m getting married!

Gabriel doesn’t even hint that the conception would not be within her marriage.

Try reading Luke 1: 26 -33 from Mary’s perspective, without the knowledge that her son would be the Son of God, and not the (biologic) son of Joseph.

I read it from Mary’s perspective. And really, it would be the thought of having to conceive “today” , it would be such thought that would make me ask, "How could this be? I know not man." On the other hand, if she was thinking of a distant future wherein she would already be married to Joseph, then she would not have found it necessary to ask the angel. For surely Mary was aware that the angel knew that the natural consequence of marriage is to procreate. Therefore, in the latter scenario, there was no need to ask Gabriel of “*How could this be?”
*
I did not need to “conjugate” or “dissect” a word just to bring the point that the conception was intended to be now. I read it as written from the bible itself. So, that must be one accepted meaning of Luke 1:31, otherwise, there would be no bible translation that would have it as “now”.

The “now” there would not necessarily mean “right at the moment”. It would mean "today", in the day that the angel made the announcement. The hours next to the moment of announcement are still future, hence other translations would say, "Behold, you shall conceive". If, for example, the announcement was made at 9:00 in the morning, and then she would conceive at 1:00 pm, then the words, “Behold, you shall conceive” would still hold true to mean “today” or “now”. Therefore, those bible translations do not contradict each other but, instead, they support each other.

Mary must have understood it that way. Hence, the thought of its impossibility “overwhelmed” her, thus making her ask Gabriel, “How could this be? I know not man.”

 

[Tom]

I read it from Mary’s perspective. And really, it would be the thought of having to conceive “today” , it would be such thought that would make me ask, "How could this be? I know not man." On the other hand, if she was thinking of a distant future wherein she would already be married to Joseph, then she would not have found it necessary to ask the angel. For surely Mary was aware that the angel knew that the natural consequence of marriage is to procreate. Therefore, in the latter scenario, there was no need to ask Gabriel of "How could this be?"

Exactly. There was no reason for her to ask “how” she shall conceive. She might have asked “how”… since I’m betrothed…

I did not need to “conjugate” or “dissect” a word just to bring the point that the conception was intended to be now. I read it as written from the bible itself. So, that must be one accepted meaning of Luke 1:31, otherwise, there would be no bible translation that would have it as “now”. The “now” there would not necessarily mean “right at the moment”. It would mean "today", in the day that the angel made the announcement. The hours next to the moment of announcement are still future, hence other translations would say, "Behold, you shall conceive". If, for example, the announcement was made at 9:00 in the morning, and then she would conceive at 1:00 pm, then the words, “Behold, you shall conceive” would still hold true to mean “today” or “now”. Therefore, those bible translations do not contradict each other but, instead, they support each other.

You do not need to conjugate, but what you need to do is read the other translations. Again “now” does not mean today. It’s a conjunction, it means “so” or “then” or “therefore”. Read any other translation, you’ll see all of these and more, “lo” “behold”, none of them mean “today”.

Mary must have understood it that way. Hence, the thought of its impossibility “overwhelmed” her, thus making her ask Gabriel, “How could this be? I know not man.”

The problem with her thinking it would be “today” is, she would need to think Gabriel was telling her she would fornicate outside of her marriage, or break her marriage vow. There is one instance that this could be possible, but her question wouldn’t be how … since I know not man; but how… since I’m betrothed. Had she thought she would conceive without sexual intercourse, she would still be violating her vow to marry Joseph. Either way the method of conception would not need to be explained, what would need to be explained is her breaking her vow to Joseph.

 

[agangbern]

Exactly. There was no reason for her to ask “how” she shall conceive. She might have asked “how”… since I’m betrothed…

There was no reason for her to ask Gabriel if she was relating the conception to her bethrothal or furture marriage because she knew that Gabriel knows that marriage naturally results to procreation. Therefore, no need to ask Garbriel. But she asked. Therefore, her question to Gabriel was not related to her bethrothal or future marriage.

You do not need to conjugate, but what you need to do is read the other translations. Again “now” does not mean today. It’s a conjunction, it means “so” or “then” or “therefore”. Read any other translation, you’ll see all of these and more, “lo” “behold”, none of them mean “today”.

As we have seen, the word “now” is used in the translation. If you would say that the word “now” means “behold”, we therefore have similar reason to say that the word “behold” means “now”. So that, when we read “behold”, we actually read “now”.

The problem with her thinking it would be “today” is, she would need to think Gabriel was telling her she would fornicate outside of her marriage, or break her marriage vow.

That actually does not necessarily follow. If she would think that Gabriel was telling her to fornicate, then she would not be asking Gabriel “How could this be?”. But precisely because she was not thinking that Gabriel was telling her to fornicate, so she asked Gabriel how she shall conceive. And Gabriel answered her how.

There is one instance that this could be possible, but her question wouldn’t be how … since I know not man; but how… since I’m betrothed.

If Mary would say, “how…since I’m bethrothed”, the possible answer of Gabriel would be: “Why? Do you think it is impossible to conceive when the two of you get married?” Clearly, she would not raise bethrothal or future marriage as her reason for asking how she shall conceive.

Had she thought she would conceive without sexual intercourse, she would still be violating her vow to marry Joseph. Either way the method of conception would not need to be explained, what would need to be explained is her breaking her vow to Joseph.

Mary was not asking the question to herself, but to Gabriel. She asked because her mind was “empty” as regards how she would conceive. She did not mention to Gabriel that she had celibacy vow with Joseph. There was no hint of that vow in Luke 1. So, that fact is out in the discussion both here and between Mary and Gabriel.