Luke 19 and "works salvation"

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When I heard today’s gospel about Zacchaeus, something jumped out at me that I had never noticed before. Jesus invites himself over to Zachhaeus’ house for dinner. Eventually, Zacchaeus promises to give away half of his posessions and that he will return 4-fold what he has taking wrongly. Jesus then promises Zacchaeus salavation. No where in the this gospel does Zachhaeus say he has faith in Jesus (although I suppose it can be inferred). Rather, Zacchaeus promises an action and Jesus responses with “Today salvation has come to this house…” (verse 9).

Am I missing something? To me this is blatantly against “faith alone” and I’m wondering how someone who subscribes to that belief explains away this passage.

Kris
 
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kwitz:
To me this is blatantly against “faith alone” and I’m wondering how someone who subscribes to that belief explains away this passage.
So is the vision of the last judgment which Jesus depicts in the Gospel of Matthew, in which entrance to heaven is made solely dependent on one’s works. (Whatever you did for the least of these my brethren, you did it for me.) There are many such passages in the gospels.
 
zachhaeus’ works were obviously the result of faith in jesus. look at it this way, unless he developed a faith in jesus (in the time that was spent in his house) and was convicted of his sins, he wouldn’t have any reason to rectify the wrongs he had committed and give to the poor.

the catholic church teaches that only works done in a state of grace (thus, with a pre-existent faith) have any value towards eternal life.

“faith alone”, i.e. faith in the absence of works, has clearly been condemned by james in his epistle.
one of the explanations given is that paul was referring to faith in the sense of a faith that guides and rules our daily life (thus, leading to actions as a natural and necessary consequence). thus, the just man “lives” by faith.
some people also say that the word “alone” was added by luther. i don’t know how true this is. can anyone out there clarify?:hmmm: :hmmm:
i would be really grateful:bowdown: :bowdown:
justin
 
Luther aded the words alone to the Romans verses that say we are saved by faith. Catholic beleive what the Bible says we are saved by faith. We didn’t add the words Luther did. A far better example of what the NT authors allude to is that Paul and James are talking about the same faith and they are not contradiction each other which is the case when a protestant puts his spin on it. Your explanation for example is spin. The differnence is not in faith but in the works alluded to. The apostolic tradtion by the earliest fathers was that Pauls works referred to the works of the law by Judaizers. James works referred to works of charity and righteousness. How did the unified single church think of Paul’s teaching. Here is a clue.

“There is no gift of God more excellent than this. It alone distinguishes the sons of the eternal kingdom and the sons of eternal perdition. Other gifts, too, are given by the Holy Spirit; but without love they profit nothing. Unless, therefore, the Holy Spirit is so far imparted to each, as to make him one who loves God and his neighbor, he is not removed from the left hand to the right. Nor is the Spirit specially called the Gift, unless on account of love. And he who has not this love, ‘though he speak with the tongues of men and angels, is sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal; and though he have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and though he have all faith, so that he can remove mountains, he is nothing; and though he bestow all his goods to feed the poor, and though he give his body to be burned, it profiteth him nothing.’ How great a good, then, is that without which goods so great bring no one to eternal life! But love or charity itself,–for they are two names for one thing,–if he have it that does not speak with tongues, nor has the gift of prophecy, nor knows all mysteries and all knowledge, nor gives all his goods to the poor, either because he has none to give or because some necessity hinders, nor delivers his body to be burned, if no trial of such a suffering overtakes him, brings that man to the kingdom, so that faith itself is only rendered profitable by love, since faith without love can indeed exist, but cannot profit. And therefore also the Apostle Paul says, ‘In Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith that worketh by love:’ so distinguishing it from that faith by which even ‘the devils believe and tremble.’ Love, therefore, which is of God and is God, is specially the Holy Spirit, by whom the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, by which love the whole Trinity dwells in us. And therefore most rightly is the Holy Spirit, although He is God, called also the gift of God. And by that gift what else can properly be understood except love, which brings to God, and without which any other gift of God whatsoever does not bring to God?”
Augustine,On the Trinity,15:18,32(A.D. 416),in NPNF1,III:217
 
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JimG:
So is the vision of the last judgment which Jesus depicts in the Gospel of Matthew, in which entrance to heaven is made solely dependent on one’s works. (Whatever you did for the least of these my brethren, you did it for me.) There are many such passages in the gospels.
This Gospel also makes it clear that “faith alone” is not what God is asking of us. I’ve recognized it in this particular reading before. It had never jumped out at me when reading about Zacchaeus though. I guess I was usually imaging the little short guy in a tree and missing other aspects of this scripture reading!

Is it because those who believe in faith alone spend more time reading Paul than the words of Jesus (to me so clear in Matthew and Luke’s gospels here) that they fail to see that it’s grace that saves?

Kris
 
It is understood that tax collectors are by the very fact of their profession extortioners and sinners. But in this text, Zacchaeus says:

“Behold, half of my possessions, Lord, I shall give to the poor, and if I have extorted anything from anyone I shall repay it four times over.”

Could it be that Zacchaeus, though wealthy, was a just man, defending his own righteousness with the challenge “**if **I have extorted . . .” as if to say: “I dare anyone to prove it!”
 
Catholics have always believed that it is by God’s grace that we are saved.

The whole “faith vs works” thing did not really become a dichotomy until the Protestant reformation. We twist our heads in circles trying to make it one or the other when it is really both. I have often thought in reading through the Gospels that it would be easy to get the impression from scripture the idea that “works alone” are the key, (e.g. from the Last Judgement passage and others), but of course that is not what we believe.
 
Jesus tells us, "If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments". The Protestants hate this answer. They think St. Paul teaches works are out and now “Faith alone” is in. How can Jesus be wrong?

The misunderstanding is that St. Paul is debating the law of circumcision and not the Law of God’s commandments. St. Peter warns us to be very careful when reading St. Paul’s writings. Martin Luther and the Protestants stumble right past St. Peter’s warnings to base the foundation of the Protestant faith on their misunderstandings of St. Paul’s writings.

St. Paul says,

Galatians 2:16

…who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Jesus says,

NAB MAT 19:16

“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’; ‘You shall not steal’; ‘You shall not bear false witness’; ‘Honor your father and mother’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

St. Paul’s writings were debating the law of circumcision and the Pharisee created Church laws and not God’s Law of the commandments.

NAB ACT 15:1
Some men came down to Antioch from Judea and began to teach the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved.” This created dissension and much controversy between them and Paul and Barnabas.NAB ACT 21:20

“You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have come to believe, all of them staunch defenders of the law. Yet they have been informed that you teach the Jews who live among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, to give up the circumcision of their children, and to renounce their customs.”
NAB PHI 3:5

(St. Paul)

I was circumcised on the eighth day, being of the stock of Israel and the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrew origins; in legal observance I was a Pharisee, and so zealous that I persecuted the church. I was above reproach when it came to justice based on the law. (GAL 6:13)NAB 1CO 7:19

(St. Paul)

Circumcision counts for nothing, and its lack makes no difference either. **What matters is keeping God’s commandments.**NAB ROM 2:13

(St. Paul)

For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; it is those who keep it who will be declared just.

NAB 2PE 3:14 Preparation for the Coming.

Consider that our Lord’s patience is directed toward salvation. Paul
, our beloved brother, wrote you this in the spirit of wisdom that is his, dealing with these matters as he does in all his letters. There are certain passages in them hard to understand. The ignorant and the unstable distort them (just as they do the rest of Scripture) to their own ruin. You are forewarned, beloved brothers. Be on your guard lest you be led astray by the error of the wicked, and forfeit the security you enjoy.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Also Luke 11:27,28
Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God*** and obey it***…
 
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Maccabees:
We didn’t add the words Luther did. A far better example of what the NT authors allude to is that Paul and James are talking about the same faith and they are not contradiction each other which is the case when a protestant puts his spin on it.
Are you saying that deamons have faith? No-one has faith without God’s Grace - are you saying that deamons have God’s grace.
 
Steven Merten:
Jesus tells us, "If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments". The Protestants hate this answer. They think St. Paul teaches works are out and now “Faith alone” is in. How can Jesus be wrong?
Folks I don’t think protestantism is being accurately respresented in this discussion. Although I agree that many folks professing protestantism downplay works. The original protestant position is that faith must produce works. Which is true from scripture no matter how you look at it. We don’t HAVE TO ADD works to our faith to be saved. If we have true faith then we WILL PRODUCE works. Basically what this does is addresses the issue of people trying to appease their conscience by doing more good things thinking they are making God happy. It is an issue of mechanics. If I don’t put gas in the car then the car doesn’t go. So what do I do? Push the car two miles to the gas station? Or do I go get gas for the car and then drive it to the gas station? The same works with faith and works. If my conscience bothers me, or if my actions are not in line with God’s word then I need to examine myself to see if I am in the faith as opposed to doing more things to appease my conscience. When James said that faith is dead without works, he didn’t mean that faith is useless. He meant that there essentially is no faith present. The faith he is talking about is faith that trust in God. Now demons can’t have faith. They may have mental accknowledgement, hence they acknowledge that there is one God.

Anyways works must be the necessary result of true faith as james says in :

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith.

Jeff
 
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Maccabees:
The differnence is not in faith but in the works alluded to. The apostolic tradtion by the earliest fathers was that Pauls works referred to the works of the law by Judaizers.
Steven and Maccabees although Paul was alluding to the works of the Judaizers, I believe that more specifically Paul as well as James, was referring to any works done apart from faith for the purpose of being justified. Maccabees your quote hits the nail on the head when it emphasizes love. Love would be the works of God produced by faith.

Jeff
 
I am sorry, I need to make a correction to my post #11 .

Luther taught that. I think Calvinist teach that even faith is not necessary as God’s predetermined choice is all that matters.

Go figure.

Jeff
 
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jphilapy:
Steven and Maccabees although Paul was alluding to the works of the Judaizers, I believe that more specifically Paul as well as James, was referring to any works done apart from faith for the purpose of being justified. Maccabees your quote hits the nail on the head when it emphasizes love. Love would be the works of God produced by faith.

Jeff
Hello jphilapy,

And what is love? Love is free from the will of God obedience to the will of God. Please visit: Jesus, What Must I Do To Share In Everlasting Life?

The way people go to heaven is through Jesus, the reason people go to heaven is because they love God and love for God is accomplished through free from the will of God obedience to the will of God.

NIV 1JO 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands.
And his commands are not burdensome.NIV JOH 14:15

"If you love me, you will obey what I command."

INT JOH 14:23


Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”

NAB EXO 20:5 “. . . you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation; but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.

NAB ROM 13 Love Fulfills the Law.

Owe no debt to anyone except the debt that binds us to love one another. He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not murder; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and any other commandment there may be are all summed up in this, saying (namely) “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love never wrongs the neighbor, hence love is the fulfillment of the law.NAB SIR 15:11 Man’s Free Will.

Say not: “It was God’s doing that I fell away”; for what he hates he does not do. Say not: “It was he who set me astray”; for he has no need of wicked man.
Abominable wickedness the LORD hates, he does not let it befall those who fear him. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will. There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand. Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
To me, the following Scripture verses make it clear that the one who has faith in Jesus, the one who loves Jesus–is the one who obeys what Jesus commands. Obedience does not operate in a vacuum. "Works"are integral to obedience; there’s no way to get around it.

John: 14:12 “I solemnly assure you, the man who has faith in me will do the works I do…” (NAB)

John:14:21 “He who obeys the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me…" (NAB)

John 14:23-24 “Jesus answered: ‘Anyone who loves me will be true to my word, and my Father will love him; we will come to him and make our dwelling place with him. He who does not love me does not keep my words…Yet the word you hear is not mine; it comes from the Father who sent me.’” (NAB)

And St. Paul tells us love is greater than faith!

1 Corinthians 13:13: "There are in the end three things that last: faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love.” (NAB)

Through Him, with Him and in Him
 
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