G
glow8worm
Guest
Luther didn’t believe in confession so he broke away from the Church. Which parts of the bible did he take out?
- Status
M
mommy
Guest
I believe the protestant Bible is missing: seven books of Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Ecclesiastes, Wisdom, and Baruch. These are known as the Deuterocanonicals. Protestants call them the Apocrypha. Also missing are seven chapters of ‘Esther’, and sixty-six verses from the third Chapter of Daniel.
I think he also took out: Hebrews, James, Jude, and the Book of Revelation, which were later put back in during the 17th century.
I think he also took out: Hebrews, James, Jude, and the Book of Revelation, which were later put back in during the 17th century.
F
frank212
Guest
WHy did Luther remove these books , It seems we need these books , after they are removed it takes alot out of spirituality
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Luther had to take these books out because they contradicted much of his man made traditions and theological opinions like ‘faith alone’ that he preached. They also supported purgatory, etc…
By the way, had Luther been able to he would have taken out much more then the 11+ books he did take out. When his fellow RE-formers/protestants put books back into the Bible Luther failed to get anymore taken out.
Luther did teach a few things I could find good in my life. Things like saved by faith alone, polygamy, keeping a mistress, kings being the head of their own church, cursing, drunkeness, breaking your own word, etc…
J
JCPhoenix
Guest
Malachai, I have to unfortuantely direct part of this at you: Why did you find “sola fide” to be “good for your life”? This is a false doctrine.
to frank:
I’m not entirely sure of all the books Luther removed, but I believe there were only 7 (I’m not sure of this number). I do know he removed Esther, Maccabees, I think Hebrews 1 & 2, and Tobit (which is used by the Sadducees to question Jesus in the gospels to try to trip him up), and the book of James.
Luther specifically removed James becaue Luther was the author of the doctrine of “faith alone.” The book of James in the NT specifically refutes this doctrine, in chapter 2:14. Luther didn’t like this so he cut it out.
He removed Tobit “officially” because he did not consider it to be an inspired gospel. This is amazing because when the Sadducees, who believed only in the Pentateuch, tried to trap Jesus, whose theology Biblically was in cohesion with the Pharisees (who accepted all of the OT), questioned him on this. Clearly, due to the gospel reference, Tobit DOES belong in the Bible.
Luther made the Bible match his own personal interpretation–he was the first “cafeteria Catholic” and just LOOK what resulted from that schism! /soapbox
Y
YuRa
Guest
I am studying Luther right now, so keep posting on this thread so that I can learn more.
I am a Evangelical Christian and support sola fide and do not see how it goes against James chapter 2, if anything James builds up the case for sola fide by showing that true saving faith will produce works or it is dead like the demons who believe in vain.
I know this is not a sola fide vs. Catholic doctrine of salvation, but what I would like to know is:
Do you not think Christ death was sufficient enough to pay the debt for our sins, or do we have to do good or override the evil that we have done?
I am a Evangelical Christian and support sola fide and do not see how it goes against James chapter 2, if anything James builds up the case for sola fide by showing that true saving faith will produce works or it is dead like the demons who believe in vain.
I know this is not a sola fide vs. Catholic doctrine of salvation, but what I would like to know is:
Do you not think Christ death was sufficient enough to pay the debt for our sins, or do we have to do good or override the evil that we have done?
Y
YuRa
Guest
I see that it is no use arguing with the common day Catholic. You rely on your own righteousness to get you into Heaven. You believe your deeds surpass the deeds credited to you when you receive Christ’s righteousness by faith. Paul calls it a false gospel that isn’t a gospel at all. That was his whole letter to the Eph.
I know now my blunt statement will get deleted as well as my account, but the word of God will never see decay! It is clear faith alone saves without any effort of man, everything else derives from faith including works. I hope God will bless you and you will except the gospel and also have a place in eternity. Until then you are damned to the eternal flames of Hell.
Sola gratia, sola Christo, sola fide, and sola Scriptura equals Soli Deo Gloria!
By grace alone through Christ alone by faith alone, and also Scripture alone as authority will equal all the Glory to Him alone! God fulfils His purpose for the vessels of mercy and the vessels of destruction without fail. May you be a vessel of mercy and except His sacrifice on the cross and through faith alone be saved.
God bless you all.
I know now my blunt statement will get deleted as well as my account, but the word of God will never see decay! It is clear faith alone saves without any effort of man, everything else derives from faith including works. I hope God will bless you and you will except the gospel and also have a place in eternity. Until then you are damned to the eternal flames of Hell.
Sola gratia, sola Christo, sola fide, and sola Scriptura equals Soli Deo Gloria!
By grace alone through Christ alone by faith alone, and also Scripture alone as authority will equal all the Glory to Him alone! God fulfils His purpose for the vessels of mercy and the vessels of destruction without fail. May you be a vessel of mercy and except His sacrifice on the cross and through faith alone be saved.
God bless you all.
J
JCPhoenix
Guest
So do you plan to argue with a dead person who claims to be Catholic? :tsktsk: I think we common day Catholics is all you have with whom to dialogue. Unless you believe in necromancy as a heresy to Evangelicalism. I could preach against that but I guess I won’t. I
This appears to be an unjustified attack to me, and I am beginning to think your theology professor is Jack Chick. It’s also a bit uncharitable, not to mention the hijacking of a thread not to this purpose. Why are you putting words in our collective mouths? Has anyone here put words in your mouth?
Or are you “prophesying” or maybe “fortune telling”? You seem to be projecting your own adjenda upon what you WANT us to believe in order to support your argument against it. I got news for you sweetheart…I am from Minnesota but I don’t do “Minnesota Nice” and I really love shredding the attacks of people who only think they have any idea of what Catholics believe.
If you believe in “sola fide” I suggest you read the Bible again. The ONLY time the words “faith alone” are found together in the Bible have the words “NOT BY” directly in front of them! The book of James, let me read it to you, says: James 2; 14
“My brothers, what good is it to profess faith without practicing it? Such faith HAS NO POWER TO SAVE ONE HAS IT?”
You say, “Paul calls it a false gospel that isn’t a gospel at all.” Will you please link the impersonal pronoun “it” to a noun in order for us to understand what you’re saying?
Wow. I pray that our Lord and Savior judges you with far more mercy than that which you have shown to us, the followers of a theology you have not even attempted to understand. May God bless you and actually set you on the journey of faith which you have rejected so soundly.
We Catholics are not allowed to actually judge people into Hell as this is something reserved for God alone. You must have quite the backbone to usurp the authority of God. I hope he deals with you mercifully, my seperated and unlearned friend.
By grace alone through Christ alone by faith alone, and also Scripture alone as authority will equal all the Glory to Him alone! God fulfils His purpose for the vessels of mercy and the vessels of destruction without fail. May you be a vessel of mercy and except His sacrifice on the cross and through faith alone be saved.
I’m so glad you interpreted the Latin. Otherwise we Catholics might not have been able to find it in our Lexicons.
Sincerely, when you are ready to actually open your heart to the Holy Spirit, please return and listen to the truth we have to share with you. We Catholics are more than happy to explain what you so cheerfully dismiss as the proverbial road to Hell.
God Bless and Keep you and May the Peace of Christ be upon you,
JCPhoenix
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Uhm???I may have made a typo in that post or just used plain bad grammer. I think what I meant to say was that I used to believe in the sin of ‘sola fida’ before I had the scales lifted from my protestant eys and I could finally ‘see’ the truth. I was a buffet line protestant for years before the Holy Ghost led me home to His Church, His body, the Catholic Church.
If you didn’t know, I’m a revert/retread/prodigal son. I sinned as a protestant but then came home to Rome. At the time I was a protestant I did believe in the sin of sola fida but now I can see it clearly as the work of Satan. I pray that Jesus takes me back after I turned my back on Him for all those years in the past as a Baptist, Lutheran, etc… (Boy, I wish I had been a Mormon instead of a Baptist, Mormons have loads more social activities and fun!
)PS, your miss-selfinterpretation of my post also proves the protestant man made invention of selfinterpretation wrong too! Thats why the Mesiah gave us a Gospel and a Church not a book!
M
Maccabees
Guest
Luther didn’t beleive in a lot of things but did beleive in Confession.
In some of his writings it is a 3rd sacrament in other writings it is a just practice but not a sacrament. Luther never made a clear decision on this Calvin and the other reformers made the clear break of confession to a priest,pastor. Luther confessed regularly to other pastors until his death evean after the break from Rome so thought is was necessary in some way just by his actions.
J
JCPhoenix
Guest
Malachi4U said:
I may have made a typo in that post or just used plain bad grammer. I think what I meant to say was that I used to believe in the sin of ‘sola fida’ before I had the scales lifted from my protestant eys and I could finally ‘see’ the truth. I was a buffet line protestant for years before the Holy Ghost led me home to His Church, His body, the Catholic Church.
If you didn’t know, I’m a revert/retread/prodigal son. I sinned as a protestant but then came home to Rome. At the time I was a protestant I did believe in the sin of sola fida but now I can see it clearly as the work of Satan. I pray that Jesus takes me back after I turned my back on Him for all those years in the past as a Baptist, Lutheran, etc… (Boy, I wish I had been a Mormon instead of a Baptist, Mormons have loads more social activities and fun!
PS, your miss-selfinterpretation of my post also proves the protestant man made invention of selfinterpretation wrong too! Thats why the Mesiah gave us a Gospel and a Church not a book!
Malachi, thanks for clearing that up. It was a simple misunderstanding as I did not understand where you were coming from, not what you called a “miss-selfinterpretation of your post.”
Had it been a “mis-selfinterpretation” I actually would have just jumped all over you then I’d have egg on my face. Instead I asked a simple question of you and moved on to addressing frank.
Again, I apologize…I did not know your history so I did not understand your personal context.
S
sparkle
Guest
What makes you think “Luther didn’t believe in confession”? He was a Catholic Priest afterall. Do you know this?
Sometimes I really wonder where some folks get their facts from…
Also, you say “which parts of the Bible did he take out”???
He added in German, that one is saved by faith ALONE…he did not take out anything, FYI.
T
Theodred
Guest
Accusing Catholics of Pelagianism is like accusing Pres. George W. Bush of being an Islamic Fundamentalist. Catholics were on the front line combating “faith by works” long before there was a Martin Luther.
I’m having a hard time reconciling this statement with that other thing you wrote in the very same post:
Hm. The next time you read your bible, how about paying attention to Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land (Matt 5:4). Especially read the following passage:
Judge not, that you may not be judged, for with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. Why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye (Matt 7:1-5).
When was the last time you told someone to “accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior”? Isn’t the act of “accepting” a human work?
Probably not. At any rate, I sincerely hope that it isn’t. Your post is a rather clear example of the vile stench of bigotry and depraved evil that surrounds anti-Catholicism. Of course, you probably aren’t aware of it. This kind of ignorant anti-Catholicism has probably been spoon fed to you by a whole host of people who have laid the seeds of vain deceit; according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ (Col 2:8).
For my part, I will be sure to keep you in my prayers. You are a wonderful person, made by a loving God, destined for love, not hatred or bigotry. It is my sincere hope that you are already well on your way to realizing this.
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Thats plain wrong. Luther never intended to break away from Christs body, His Catholic Church. Luther was excommunicated from the Church. Luther got the boot for his herisey and false teachings. Once Luther was kicked out he had no choice but to invent more of his own man-made traditions and religion.
Luther did not leave the Church that Christ founded, the Church kicked out a mentally disturbed heretic monk named Luther. The Church used the authority given her by Christ himself when He gave her authority to bind or loose on earth. Luther was loosed and thank God for it.
I still think we should all pray for the soul of Luther. Pray that God has mercy on him. Our job is to pray for everyone even Judas. It is Gods job to judge us by our works, etc… (For you protestants out there, works prove our Faith, Faith without works is dead. Faith cannot exist without works, at least the desire for good works.)
I am harsh on what Luther did, but I still pray for his soul and hope that he can find his way to Gods grace too. This is Love, this is what we must have.
By the way, if Luther made it to pugatory do you think the flame glowed a bit brighter as his soul was purified? Did he go to hell because he was loosed on earth and thus never had his soul cleansed of impurity?
M
Malachi4U
Guest
You did nothing to apologize for. I took no offense and agreed with your statement based on the errant grammer in my post.
Boy, I wish I could write perfectly like the scribes who wrote the King James Bible, then there would be no way you could missinterpret what I said!
I apologize to you for missleading you with my poor writting.
God bless,
- Status