Lutheran and Church of God Beliefs?

[House_Harkonnen]

I think it is safe to say that there is no real comparisons between Lutherans and the Church of God, per Wikipediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_God

But agree that the cultural differences between extremely conservative Lutherans like the Wisconsin Synod and Pentecostals is worth examining. The WELC, like the LCMS, are primarily Midwest churches, thus the states of Missouri and Wisconsin. Both of these Lutheran synods resist change and tend to view the world cautiously. For example, the WELC has no ecumenical ties with the Catholic Church, even though they are distant cousins, so to speak. Not only are women expected to assume a submissive role but if a family member happens to be gay, these Lutherans would shame the individual and force them out of the Church. I guess that calling themselves 'Confessional" is a way to be separate from the Lutheran Communion, in general.

Not only are women expected to assume a submissive role.

Yep. Exactly what Paul asked women to do. (1 Tim 2:11).

but if a family member happens to be gay, these Lutherans would shame the individual and force them out of the Church.

Nonsense. We would simply ask them to refrain from homosexual behavior, because scripture declares homosexual behavior to be a sin. (Romans 1:26-31).

I guess that calling themselves 'Confessional" is a way to be separate from the Lutheran Communion, in general.

All Lutherans were “confessional” for hundreds of years. It’s only in the last few decades that some decided to break with tradition and historical Christianity. We rightly separate from such error.

 

[JonNC]

=andrewstx;12114337]I quickly tired of all the intra-Lutheran squabbling. (Let the REAL Lutheran stand up).

So I did some research on the Church of God to see if they and the Lutherans were somehow related. They are only connected tangentally in that the COG came from pietism.

I tire of it, too, because on most doctrinal fronts all Lutherans agree.

Just wondered why the OP connected the two?

Me, too.

I kind of see the Lutherans who proudly call them selves ‘confessional’ as being some how related to the political ‘tea party’. Please hear me out.

I heard you out. Now my response.

The political tea party is very, very conservative, so are the ‘confessional’ Lutherans to at least some degree.

It is difficult, ISTM, to make a strong parallel between political conservatism, and that in religion, even though they can overlap. A better term might be orthodoxy.

The PTP has great animus for homosexauals, so do many confessional Lutherans.

I strongly disagree with this on both fronts, but will focus on our communion, and not the political. The LCMS stance towards homosexuals is well stated by A.L.Barry,our late former president (bishop).

The church’s message to homosexual persons is the same message it proclaims to all people: Repent and believe the Gospel! All human beings are born with a sinful nature that results in sinful thoughts,words and actions.Homosexuality is
but one of many sinful situations human beings encounter in this life. From the moment we are born, all human beings stand under God’s perfect judgement. All of us,by nature,are
lost and condemned sinners.We all need God’s mercy in Christ for our salvation.
The church’s most important message to homosexuals is the promise of forgiveness and eternal life through the person and the work of Jesus Christ.God sent His Son into this world to live a perfect life on our behalf, and to die a perfect death as the payment for all of our sins.
A statement regarding homosexuality from the Lutheran Church in Australia summarizes the church’s response to homosexuality in a very helpful way: “The Church, while
rejecting on the one hand the movement which claims tolerance of homosexual behavior in the name of freedom of the individual and of moral progress,must also resist the popular
reaction of persecution and ostracism.
“The Church must exhibit understanding and sympathy for the homosexual, show love and pastoral concern, being ready to give help and encouragement in whatever way possible.
It must proclaim to homosexuals,as it does to all men,the judgment of God against sin,above all the forgiveness of sin for Christ’s sake,and the possibility of new life through the power of the Holy Spirit.…”

To hold “great animus” against homosexuals would be contrary to the Gospel.

The PTP sees women to be kept in their place, so do many confessional Lutherans and that place is not in a pulpit or at an Altar.

If by what you mean by “kept in their place” meaning the scriptural references to the roles of men and women in the Church, then I would agree. But the way you state this plays into the hands of the secularists who will use the same argument against the Catholic and Orthodoxy communions, as well. There is no differentiation. Our reasons and yours are essentially the same, and it has been the same since the start of the Church at Pentecost. It is not cultural, or based on a bias against women.

I could be completely wrong in all of this, as I am not Lutheran and not in on all the debates. When I was checking out Lutherans there was no ELCA, only LCMS, the ALC, and the LCA. If WELS existed at the time I was not aware of them, they did not exist in my city.

First I went to the ALC and then the LCMS. The LCMS was already caught up in the church growth movement and eschwed Liturgical worship. So that ended my relationship with LCMS.
The ELCA is, effectively, a merger of the LCA and ALC, along with some from the LCMS and other small groups. The WELS has been around for a long time, as well.
The church-growth movement has, sadly, had a foothold in the LCMS for awhile, but it is by no means the prevailing mode. If it were, I would not be LCMS.

Jon

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I agree and apologize for being involved in tedious arguments over what is “Lutheran”. My tendency is to react to every slur or attack on the ELCA and the Lutheran World Federation by other Lutherans from the U.S. I think some posters may not even be aware of how insignificant Lutherans are in north America, population-wise, compared to Europe and even Africa. I don’t see this kind of animosity between other religious groups on CAF and am ashamed that Lutherans seem to be un-Christian at times.

 

[andrewstx]

It is true that Orthodoxy has no women priests. But we are much more inclined toward monasticism than churches of the west, which at least I see as more inclined to logic and even perhaps legalism.

A number of Orthodox nuns have been very prominent. We even have women elders (starests) who have great influence.

My own patron Saint, St Seraphim of Sarov was such an elder, who was never ordained to the priesthood. So was St. Herman of Alaska. Never made priests but they have and had great influence. These Saints are venerated by hundreds of thousands. Even though the were never ordained. Elders are elders regardless of gender, and that includes female elders. Such elders are hermits as a rule, and there are many of them.

Basically, I think that their is a different mindset between East and West.

 

[Per_Crucem]

I quickly tired of all the intra-Lutheran squabbling. (Let the REAL Lutheran stand up).

For me, it doesn’t have to do with whether any particular Lutheran church body is “really Lutheran” or not, or whether they are confessional. The NALC, I don’t believe, is confessional on women’s ordination. I wouldn’t accuse them of not being real Lutherans, though.

For some member churches of the LWF, it’s whether those churches can reasonably be called Christian at all. When a church body condones, blesses, and propogates actions that are instrinsically opposed to the law of God (sinful), it is sensible to ask whether they can be called Christian church. The same is true outside of Lutheranism (i.e., the PCUSA). So it really isn’t a Lutheran issue. If a church endorsed adultery, theft or murder, perhaps it wouldn’t be contentious as to what we would call them.

First I went to the ALC and then the LCMS. The LCMS was already caught up in the church growth movement and eschwed Liturgical worship. So that ended my relationship with LCMS.

I don’t blame you there.

 

[benjohnson]

I quickly tired of all the intra-Lutheran squabbling.

I agree over squabbling. I don’t necessarily agree that calling the heterodox to repent by proclaiming the gospel is squabbling.