Lying to Alzheimer's patients

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Go ahead and tell the patients whatever they want to hear to make them happy. Their mental state is altered and trying to correct them is futile because they are not fully present in the current time. Why cause an argument when facts mean nothing to their side of it?
 
I_A_:
Lying is always wrong.
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  1. As he was passing through a field of grain on the sabbath, his disciples began to make a path while picking the heads of grain.
  2. At this the Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the sabbath?”
  3. He said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and he and his companions were hungry?
  4. How he went into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest and ate the bread of offering that only the priests could lawfully eat, and shared it with his companions?"
  5. Then he said to them, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
    Mark 2:23-27
  6. Jesus spoke to the scholars of the law and Pharisees in reply, asking, “Is it lawful to cure on the sabbath or not?”
  7. But they kept silent; so he took the man and, after he had healed him, dismissed him.
  8. Then he said to them, “Who among you, if your son or ox falls into a cistern, would not immediately pull him out on the sabbath day?”
  9. But they were unable to answer his question.
    Luke 14:3-6
This isn’t a reference to lying directly but to the general principle behind God’s commandments. An alzheimer patient has a disease mind that will not recover it will only progress. A true lie damages in one form or another. There is no damage here. What is being done is comforting an ill person. True reality is what will only confuse and aggitate the person. Correction accomplishes nothing accept pain to the person. It’s not like your helping them see the error of their ways by correcting them. God’s commandments were made to help us not to hurt us.

And as a far as the Nazi scenario. If a child rapist/murderer comes to your doorstep and asks are their children in the house, you think God expects you to say “Yes, there are children here.”?
The Nazi’s were torturers and murderers-you think God thinks it’s just grand to turn over innocent people to be murdered in the name of honesty? It’s sounds like the Pharisees in Jesus’ time that were so obsessed with following the letter of law that they forgot the reasons for the law. God is good; and to turn over innocent people to murderers is evil. The commandments aren’t there for us to do evil. They are there for us to do what is good and right and just.
 
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geojack:
How do you know that he knew where she was at? Or that he wanted her to have a good nights sleep? Did he tell you that before he died? When gentle distraction does not work do you make them relive the pain(by telling the truth) or remain silent and let them stay in that state. I can divert and distract most of the time but not always. 24/7 with a person that you have known for 50 years is not the same as a job. Their welfare and happiness comes first. I really don’t think God cares if you lie to make them happy or to lessen their confusion when there is no personal gain for the liar.
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If her husband is in heaven or hell, either way he know where she is. Apart from that, I pray a lot and ask God’s help in my work.

I do not presume to know God’s mind (or second-guess him) as to the degree of a lie, I simply have chosen not to differentiate in my personal life. Are you condemning me for that?

With all my patients, with Alzheimer’s, dementia or simply confusion, I give them the reassurance and love that I give to all God’s creatures.

**geojack ? **
Where will you be on Christmas Day?

Me and my children will visit the hospital where I work. We will be visiting men and women who have had had strokes; who have limited means of communicating; who are frustrated beyond measure because they can’t communicate. Men and women who have to submit, daily, to indignities and embarrasements that have abled-bodied people voting for euthanasia.

I have nursed people through their final days and hours, including my own father.

So far, I have not had to resort to lies to ease the mental suffering of anyone I have cared for. I would not do it to my own father, I would not lie to my child, and I would not lie to anyone else.

In fact, I tell my children that if they don’t repent they will go to hell. Jesus said that if the Gospels.

"geojack " you said
Their welfare and happiness comes first.
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What if God’s laws come first? Can you guarantee that? Can you guarantee that little white lies don’t count in God’s reckoning?
 
Actually, if we can’t be honest, why don’t we let pagans and athiests care for those with Alzeheimer’s, most of them don’t have a moral problem with telling lies.

Catholics have, for centuries probably, had a saying: “Tell the truth and shame the Devil”

I don’t have a problem with telling the truth, but I do have a problem with telling lies. Even a ‘little white lie’ has me going to Confession. When I say “…I will not sin again…” I really mean it.
 
Eileen T:
Actually, if we can’t be honest, why don’t we let pagans and athiests care for those with Alzeheimer’s, most of them don’t have a moral problem with telling lies.

Catholics have, for centuries probably, had a saying: “Tell the truth and shame the Devil”

I don’t have a problem with telling the truth, but I do have a problem with telling lies. Even a ‘little white lie’ has me going to Confession. When I say “…I will not sin again…” I really mean it.
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So, turn this around. If your family member had alzheimers and believed that his/her spouse was alive would you tell them the truth? Would you tell the truth if they believed that you were someone other relative.

By the way is merely remaining silent a lie?
 
I really don’t know. Isn’t the act of silence a lie? If you omitt things aren’t you telling a lie?
 
Eileen T:
Actually, if we can’t be honest, why don’t we let pagans and athiests care for those with Alzeheimer’s, most of them don’t have a moral problem with telling lies.

Catholics have, for centuries probably, had a saying: “Tell the truth and shame the Devil”

I don’t have a problem with telling the truth, but I do have a problem with telling lies. Even a ‘little white lie’ has me going to Confession. When I say “…I will not sin again…” I really mean it.
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This reminds me of those so called “zero tolerance” rules in schools where we expell kids for having a plastic butter knife. We must use common sense and reason with a well formed conscience.

A well formed adult conscience can easily walk the line of telling the truth to those with a right to it and witholding it from those who have no right to it or from those to whom the truth would cause suffering.

I watched my grandmother decline in to dementia and exist there for years. Sometimes a harmless statement that was less than true was an act of mercy.

I am NOT advocating the Huckelberry Finn approach to life, by the way.
 
Eileen T:
Actually, if we can’t be honest, why don’t we let pagans and athiests care for those with Alzeheimer’s, most of them don’t have a moral problem with telling lies.

Catholics have, for centuries probably, had a saying: “Tell the truth and shame the Devil”

I don’t have a problem with telling the truth, but I do have a problem with telling lies. Even a ‘little white lie’ has me going to Confession. When I say “…I will not sin again…” I really mean it.
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So by being scrupulous in not telling untruths, you would feel justified in the anquish that your words cause to someone such as a person with some form of dimentia? Does a lack of compassion also send you to confess? Does causing mental anquish also send you to confess? What a conundrum to find yourself in.
 
I know two people who suffer from alzheimer’s and believe me, when one of them says, “this is my husband”, and introduces one of my brothers-in-law, he puts his hand out to shake hands with whoever and winks at them (its obvious that she is well into her 80’s and that he is about 30 years younger than she is). He use to correct her, but then she would always want to know where her “real” husband was and then he would have to tell her of his death, and then she would cry (because it was news to her, even though he died long before her illness began.) Anyway, sometimes, it’s just easier to go along, it isn’t a lie, it’s just peace in a terrible situation. It use to happen daily. Now, God bless her, she is just happy. Some day she will stop asking altogether where he is, or even know that he is there at all.
 
Here’s some good info on managing these patients. Note, it is futile to make attempts at ‘reality reorientation’. It is upsetting to the patient. It is not a moral consideration to go along with these patients’ false perceptions of reality.

Managing Agitation Behavior in Alzheimer’s Patients

Remember, the difficult task of caring for a loved one is exhausting. I suggest to Eileen T that she might better serve Christ by volunteering to provide respite care for a caregiver of an Alzhiemers patient, rather than posting santimonious posts on an internet posting site encouraging moral scrupulouslity for these heroic people who deal with this on a daily basis.
 
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allhers:
I know two people who suffer from alzheimer’s and believe me, when one of them says, “this is my husband”, and introduces one of my brothers-in-law, he puts his hand out to shake hands with whoever and winks at them (its obvious that she is well into her 80’s and that he is about 30 years younger than she is). He use to correct her, but then she would always want to know where her “real” husband was and then he would have to tell her of his death, and then she would cry (because it was news to her, even though he died long before her illness began.) Anyway, sometimes, it’s just easier to go along, it isn’t a lie, it’s just peace in a terrible situation. It use to happen daily. Now, God bless her, she is just happy. Some day she will stop asking altogether where he is, or even know that he is there at all.
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That isn’t lying anyway; it’s saying nothing. It is somewhat different from actually saying “That’s right, I’m her husband” - he simply didn’t correct her. I never thought there was an obligation to correct them, I would just balk at making a completely false statement.
 
My grandfather has alzeimers , he now has it in the extreme case that he can not speak any longer , he first forgot english and then his Italian. When he was in the beggining stages of the disease he became confused and increasingly agravated ( spelling??). We would have to “lie” to fit what he believed was true becasue they can end up hurting themselves and others when they get to a certain point of frustration. It is emotional and somewhat difficult when you see a family member suffering like this , not being able to understand things they could once understand, so to a certain degree it makes the victim of this disease happy and in them being happy it makes you somewhat happy to see them happy. Therefor as someone who has lived among my grandfather who has had this disease for somewhere around 6 years now , it is something ( lying ) that gives the victim tranquility and the family of the victim assurance in seeing that they are not always frustrated . It is a truly horrible disease , from such a strong man who could overcome anything has become someone who can no longer talk or walk without you helping him. He is now not able to keep his eyes open all the time . The docters say it is close although they have been saying that for the past 3 years. I ask that you pray for him , for when his time comes that Our Lord may welcome him into his Kingdom. I also have a question concerning this disease, because he has been ill he has not been able to recieve communion or attend mass for some time now , what does that mean???Does that in any way jeopordize his chance for salvation, will God be merciful becasue of the circumstances.

In Christ
Mark
 
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emsvetich:
My feelings were that the need to correct her memory lapses was having a more detrimental effect on my mother than her memory lapses themselves.
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I agree. There is no need to lie to an Alzheimer’s patient. Just don’t argue with them.

Even the phrase ‘to lie’ has no meaning when applied to those who are unable to distinguish current reality.

There is a danger that a typical ‘Catholic’ obsession about moral precepts may sometimes overcome common sense in dealing with such patients.
 
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mjdonnelly:
To those of you who say that lying is always a sin, prove it.
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This shows that lying is always a sin, but does not make clear whether agreeing with someone who already believes a lie and will not believe the truth is actually lying.

From the catechism:
2482"A *lie *consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving."281 The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: "You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."282

2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.

**2484 **The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.

2485 By its very nature, lying is to be condemned. It is a profanation of speech, whereas the purpose of speech is to communicate known truth to others. The deliberate intention of leading a neighbor into error by saying things contrary to the truth constitutes a failure in justice and charity. The culpability is greater when the intention of deceiving entails the risk of deadly consequences for those who are led astray.

2486 Since it violates the virtue of truthfulness, a lie does real violence to another. It affects his ability to know, which is a condition of every judgment and decision. It contains the seed of discord and all consequent evils. Lying is destructive of society; it undermines trust among men and tears apart the fabric of social relationships**.2487** Every offense committed against justice and truth entails the duty of reparation, even if its author has been forgiven. When it is impossible publicly to make reparation for a wrong, it must be made secretly. If someone who has suffered harm cannot be directly compensated, he must be given moral satisfaction in the name of charity. This duty of reparation also concerns offenses against another’s reputation. This reparation, moral and sometimes material, must be evaluated in terms of the extent of the damage inflicted. It obliges in conscience.
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willy:
My grandfather has alzeimers , he now has it in the extreme case that he can not speak any longer , he first forgot english and then his Italian. When he was in the beggining stages of the disease he became confused and increasingly agravated ( spelling??). We would have to “lie” to fit what he believed was true becasue they can end up hurting themselves and others when they get to a certain point of frustration. It is emotional and somewhat difficult when you see a family member suffering like this , not being able to understand things they could once understand, so to a certain degree it makes the victim of this disease happy and in them being happy it makes you somewhat happy to see them happy. Therefor as someone who has lived among my grandfather who has had this disease for somewhere around 6 years now , it is something ( lying ) that gives the victim tranquility and the family of the victim assurance in seeing that they are not always frustrated . It is a truly horrible disease , from such a strong man who could overcome anything has become someone who can no longer talk or walk without you helping him. He is now not able to keep his eyes open all the time . The docters say it is close although they have been saying that for the past 3 years. I ask that you pray for him , for when his time comes that Our Lord may welcome him into his Kingdom. I also have a question concerning this disease, because he has been ill he has not been able to recieve communion or attend mass for some time now , what does that mean???Does that in any way jeopordize his chance for salvation, will God be merciful becasue of the circumstances.

In Christ
Mark
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My father, with dementia,reached a point where he was not mentally able to go to Holy Communion. (He would walk back from receiving the Eucharist with the Host on his hand and had to be told to consume it by the sacristan, or he would start to talk to someone with the Host in his mouth.) Because he wasn’t totally aware of what was going on, I was told by a priest to not let him receive, and not to worry about it at all. He was innocent as a newborn child at that point. When he was finally in a nursing home I asked the deacon who came in to give Holy Communion to the residents to give him a blessing instead. People in that mental state could inadvertently abuse the Eucharist, although they are not aware of it. They are in the Lord’s hands. This happens frequently to Catholics in nursing homes.
 
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BlindSheep:
This shows that lying is always a sin, but does not make clear whether agreeing with someone who already believes a lie and will not believe the truth is actually lying.
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So, please explain what to do when not lying can cause loss of life.

By allowing something false to persist, you end up contributing to that falsehood.
 
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