Major Flaws of Islam?

[swariffin]

**Jesus will not bless any one any more than a king or queen blesses a person. Even that is not possible now that Jesus has gone away and nothing is heard from him for the last 2000 years.

It is not good for you to pray to Jesus or to Mary. It is better for you to pray for him and pray for Mary as you pray for yourself. Please include the two mortals in your prayers.**

One other flaw in Islam Planten, You guys are still praying for Muhammad, correct? to pray that Muhammad will get the highest place as promised by Allah, correct? If you are still praying for Muhammad to get the highest place, it means that you guys are not sure about the safety of Muhammad. Forget my post, if you no longer pray for Muhammad.

For the Christian, not only we believe Jesus is already reigning in heaven, we believe that Jesus has prepared the way for human (including you, believe it or not) to enter His Kingdom. It is up to you if you want to enter or not. So, praying to Jesus is much more accurate, rather than praying for.

 

[Angelos]

Jesus will not bless any one any more than a king or queen blesses a person. Even that is not possible now that Jesus has gone away and nothing is heard from him for the last 2000 years.

What’s heard from Allah for the last 1400 years IF we suppose for a second that the Koran is Allah’s revelation??? Once Mohammad is gone, Allah is gone too because no revelation comes after Mohammad’s departure.

**
It is not good for you to pray to Jesus or to Mary. It is better for you to pray for him and pray for Mary as you pray for yourself. Please include the two mortals in your prayers.**

A verse in the Koran claims that Muslims dying in the jihaad (religious battle against polytheists and infidels) are still alive in Allah’s sight. Please exclude those people from your “list of mortals” for whom you pray.

 

[morning_star777]

dear mr.planten its not the subject that we are praying to mortal or not.it was the subject about inheritance law of quran.u replied to mr.agnos that you will take some time then solve it.so want more time or ready?we are watting.jesus bless all of us.AMEN.

 

[planten]

What’s heard from Allah for the last 1400 years IF we suppose for a second that the Koran is Allah’s revelation??? Once Mohammad is gone, Allah is gone too because no revelation comes after Mohammad’s departure.

There have been saints who had communion (some messages) from God, i.e. Muslim saints (Aulia Allah). God is still speaking. But not to christians, I suppose, because they never made anything known about that.

A verse in the Koran claims that Muslims dying in the jihaad (religious battle against polytheists and infidels) are still alive in Allah’s sight. Please exclude those people from your “list of mortals” for whom you pray.

**You being an ex-Muslim are completely unaware of the Islamic teachings. Quran tells us not to call the Martyrs as dead people. They are living but we cannot understand how they are living.

Even then we do not pray to any Martyr. When you were a Muslim, did you pray to any Martyr? I am sorry about your previous life in Islam. Does not seem to be true. But I have to believe you.**

 

[planten]

One other flaw in Islam Planten, You guys are still praying for Muhammad, correct? to pray that Muhammad will get the highest place as promised by Allah, correct? If you are still praying for Muhammad to get the highest place, it means that you guys are not sure about the safety of Muhammad. Forget my post, if you no longer pray for Muhammad.

For the Christian, not only we believe Jesus is already reigning in heaven, we believe that Jesus has prepared the way for human (including you, believe it or not) to enter His Kingdom. It is up to you if you want to enter or not. So, praying to Jesus is much more accurate, rather than praying for.

**No harm. We pray for Jesus too that Allah give him good reward for his good work. When referring to Jesus (like all other prophets) we say that “May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him”.

He was human being and nothing more. A son of a pious woman. Jesus performed his duty here on earth as a prophet and passed away from this world. He never preached here as a God. People knew him as a prophet of God. It is all in the bible. And a prophet is a messenger of God. he cannot be the God**.

 

[inJESUS]

No harm. We pray for Jesus too that Allah give him good reward for his good work. When referring to Jesus (like all other prophets) we say that “May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him”.

you should pray that Allah gives Issa some money to be able to give alms in heaven

 

[Angelos]

There have been saints who had communion (some messages) from God, i.e. Muslim saints (Aulia Allah). God is still speaking. But not to christians, I suppose, because they never made anything known about that.

So you mean that solely because YOU do not know anything about Christian saints or because YOU solely do not believe in them will make them unreal??? What sort of reasoning is this???

Should I do the same and rebut your assertion by asking the question why those Muslim saints never appear to non-Muslims???

****You being an ex-Muslim are completely unaware of the Islamic teachings. Quran tells us not to call the Martyrs as dead people. They are living but we cannot understand how they are living.

Even then we do not pray to any Martyr. When you were a Muslim, did you pray to any Martyr? I am sorry about your previous life in Islam. Does not seem to be true. But I have to believe you.****

Would you please do me a favour by showing me the post where I supposedly claimed that Muslims prayed to martyrs??? Dear planten, you are making up assertions and putting them into my mouth in order to falsely judge the faith before my conversion to Orthodoxy.

I simply stated that you should stop praying FOR those Muslim martyrs since you asked us Christians to include Jesus and Mary into the list of dead people to be prayed FOR. As your Scripture says those martyrs are still alive, they cannot be added to the list of dead people you Muslims pray FOR.

I hope it is clear now.

 

[Angelos]

**
He was human being and nothing more. A son of a pious woman. Jesus performed his duty here on earth as a prophet and passed away from this world. He never preached here as a God. People knew him as a prophet of God. It is all in the bible. And a prophet is a messenger of God. he cannot be the God**.

A prophet cannot be God, but God can come to this world in human form with the mission of a messenger, which became possible through Jesus’ incarnation!

 

[inJESUS]

A prophet cannot be God, but God can come to this world in human form with the mission of a messenger, which became possible through Jesus’ incarnation!

naaa Muslims believe that Jesus was born to no biological father but they haven’t got a clue as to the reason so they call it a “miracle” . A miracle that can neither be seen nor proved nor does it serve any purpose…

 

[Angelos]

naaa Muslims believe that Jesus was born to no biological father but they haven’t got a clue as to the reason so they call it a “miracle” . A miracle that can neither be seen nor proved nor does it serve any purpose…

Yes. They recurrently quote from their Koran the verse contending “Allah is exalted, He is in need of nothing to take a son. Whenever he wants something, he simply says “BE”, and it comes to existence”. Nevertheless, Allah needs Mary to create Jesus miraculously. Thus, Islam reluctantly regards the notion of BIRTH as superior to direct CREATION with regard to Jesus’ nativity.

 

[MelanieAnne]

It shouldn’t be a surprise that Islam finds a way to identify “flaws” in Christianity and Judaism. Both were fairly strong faiths in the region when Mohommed came up with Islam. Christianity was approved by the Roman Empire by this time, so Mohammed had some heavy local competition.

It’s not all that different from the Joseph Smith story where Jospeh prays to learn which church he should join and he gets the answer “none of them”. New faiths are always, in some way, a repudiation of other faiths.

So “flaws” are found and BINGO you get to be the founder of the ONE TRUE FAITH.

 

[planten]

It shouldn’t be a surprise that Islam finds a way to identify “flaws” in Christianity and Judaism. Both were fairly strong faiths in the region when Mohommed came up with Islam. Christianity was approved by the Roman Empire by this time, so Mohammed had some heavy local competition.

It’s not all that different from the Joseph Smith story where Jospeh prays to learn which church he should join and he gets the answer “none of them”. New faiths are always, in some way, a repudiation of other faiths.

So “flaws” are found and BINGO you get to be the founder of the ONE TRUE FAITH.

**As there was corruption and bad practices of the Jewish faith (as well described in the bible NT), there was a need for Jesus to come and correct the bad habits of the Jews. jesus had not come to create or correct the christians. He was a Jew and had come to relieve the Jews. But they did not accept him and tried to kill him on the cross.

The punishment for blasphemy in the bible OT is stoning. But the Jews did not ask that Jesus should be stoned to death. They had special purpose to condemn Jesus as a cursed person. That is why they cried hoarse to crucify Jesus.

But they did not succeed. Jesus did not want to die as cursed person. He prayed in the garden before arrest so that the bad cup may be averted from him, i.e. the ignonimous cursed death on the cross. God was very kind and accepted his prayers and saved him from death on the cross ( Described in the Quran). That is the reality. Crucifixion means death on the cross. Since he did not die on the cross so the act of crucifixtion was not completed.

We know that as Jesus was required and very much needed as a prophet of God to correct the matters, so was Muhammad needed when Arabia and India and most part of the world (including christians) were sunk deep in idolatory (Trinity).

Jesus said “I am the way. No one goes to father except through me…” That is all correct. We Muslims understand it and believe in it. But the christians try to read too much between the lines. They unduely use many metaphoric terms to misread and mislead. That is all unnecessary. Please think. Jesus used many parables.

That was good and natural. The christians should keep the symbolic language as symbolic and not to turn it into real words.**

 

[Angelos]

As there was corruption and bad practices of the Jewish faith (as well described in the bible NT), there was a need for Jesus to come and correct the bad habits of the Jews. jesus had not come to create or correct the christians. He was a Jew and had come to relieve the Jews. But they did not accept him and tried to kill him on the cross.

This assertion of yours is denied by Jesus Himself in the New Testament. Actually, the presumption that Jesus came because Jews were evil people that had corrupted their Scripture is an innovation fabricated by Muslims who cannot endure the truth that they are the members of the only faith that desperately needs the corruption of the former revelations.

**
The punishment for blasphemy in the bible OT is stoning. But the Jews did not ask that Jesus should be stoned to death. They had special purpose to condemn Jesus as a cursed person. That is why they cried hoarse to crucify Jesus.**

Read the Gospel of John 8 to see that Jews attempted to stone Jesus to death when He overtly referred to His pre-existence in time. Nevertheless, Jesus was crucified because Israel was not a free state at that time and the death penalty concerning the blasphemy in the Torah was not always applicable. This is why Jews took Jesus to the Roman governor with both a religious and political pretext and demanded His crucifixion. Consequently, Jesus’ prediction that “He will be handed over to Gentiles” was fulfilled.

**
But they did not succeed. Jesus did not want to die as cursed person. He prayed in the garden before arrest so that the bad cup may be averted from him, i.e. the ignonimous cursed death on the cross. God was very kind and accepted his prayers and saved him from death on the cross ( Described in the Quran). That is the reality. Crucifixion means death on the cross. Since he did not die on the cross so the act of crucifixtion was not completed**.

You have neither the new Testament nor the Koran to support your uncanny interpretation based on an irrational definition of the word “crucify”. The sense of the verb “crucify” is “put someone on a cross”. To complicate the issue, you accept that Jesus was crucified when you claim “he did not die on the cross”(these are your words). If Jesus was on the cross, this means He was put on the cross by His adversaries, which means that He had been crucified!

Besides, could you please quote the verses in the Koran which describe Jesus’ alleged redemption from the cross in the same way as you do?

Finally, you claim that the act of crucifixion was not completed. However, this cannot change the fact that Jesus had been crucified. The Koran, unlike you, denies not only Jesus’ death, but also His arrest and all the things occurring throughout His passion.

**
We know that as Jesus was required and very much needed as a prophet of God to correct the matters, so was Muhammad needed when Arabia and India and most part of the world (including christians) were sunk deep in idolatory (Trinity).**

We Christians know that the faulty and unethical designation of the Trinity as mere idolatry is also required by you people who have no other means of proving that Islam is the best and only celestial religion.

**
Jesus said “I am the way. No one goes to father except through me…” That is all correct. We Muslims understand it and believe in it. But the christians try to read too much between the lines. They unduely use many metaphoric terms to misread and mislead. That is all unnecessary. Please think. Jesus used many parables.

That was good and natural. The christians should keep the symbolic language as symbolic and not to turn it into real words.**

What would you do if I said, “Mohammad meant he was only like one of Jesus’ apostles when he said he was sent as a prophet to Arabia”.

How can you accuse us Christians of misinterpreting the Gospel while YOU are the one to crop and distort Jesus’ statements so as to adapt them to your beliefs? I must remind you that YOU have somehow ignored the fact that Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and Life” Which of the other prophets could make such a challenging claim before and after Jesus?

 

[Steven_John]

Peace be upon and with you all.

This is a great thread I give thanks to God.

I have learned much on the different perspectives / understandings of prayer and worship, intercession and idolatry.

FOR ME this brings an opportunity of acceptance of truth.

I would like to offer this to thread,

a great apostle (PBWH) once said not to fight over mere words.
Does any one think this wisdom could be of God suggesting meanings as understood by each party is where the truth can be found?

a great messenger (PBWH) once offered that God guides who he wills and no one can change it.
Does any one think this wisdom could be of God suggesting when each party has made its point don’t keep bashing it to the other.

Neither of these statements are exact quotes, no offense is intended.

as stated this is of my heart, do as you are guided, this is the will of The Most High.

you are not compulsed to follow me,

Peace is with me and I offer it to you
I will be who I will be

 

[planten]

This assertion of yours is denied by Jesus Himself in the New Testament. Actually, the presumption that Jesus came because Jews were evil people that had corrupted their Scripture is an innovation fabricated by Muslims who cannot endure the truth that they are the members of the only faith that desperately needs the corruption of the former revelations.

Jesus abused the Jews and called them a corrupt generation and sons of snakes and wicked generation. What other proof you want about the corruption of those people! It is in the bible.

Read the Gospel of John 8 to see that Jews attempted to stone Jesus to death when He overtly referred to His pre-existence in time. Nevertheless, Jesus was crucified because Israel was not a free state at that time and the death penalty concerning the blasphemy in the Torah was not always applicable. This is why Jews took Jesus to the Roman governor with both a religious and political pretext and demanded His crucifixion. Consequently, Jesus’ prediction that “He will be handed over to Gentiles” was fulfilled.

** That was bad. They did not even once tell the Romans that Jesus needs to be stoned to death. They were crying hoarse that he should be Crucified. So you are wrong.**

You have neither the new Testament nor the Koran to support your uncanny interpretation based on an irrational definition of the word “crucify”. The sense of the verb “crucify” is “put someone on a cross”. To complicate the issue, you accept that Jesus was crucified when you claim “he did not die on the cross”(these are your words). If Jesus was on the cross, this means He was put on the cross by His adversaries, which means that He had been crucified!

Besides, could you please quote the verses in the Koran which describe Jesus’ alleged redemption from the cross in the same way as you do?

Finally, you claim that the act of crucifixion was not completed. However, this cannot change the fact that Jesus had been crucified. The Koran, unlike you, denies not only Jesus’ death, but also His arrest and all the things occurring throughout His passion.

** I have the bible and the Quran in my support. To crucify some one is to kill a person on the cross. If the man does not die even though he is put on the cross, he is not crucified. You are giving wrong meanings to crucifixion. Suppose a man is put on the cross and nailed there but somehow, it is considered that he should be released, would you say that he was crucified? Surely not.**

 

[AgnosTheist]

**Jesus abused the Jews and called them a corrupt generation and sons of snakes and wicked generation. **

Jesus was only referring to SOME PHARISEES. Not jews in general.

 

[Angelos]

Jesus abused the Jews and called them a corrupt generation and sons of snakes and wicked generation. What other proof you want about the corruption of those people! It is in the bible.

First, Jesus said that “Salvation is of the JEWS” (John 4:22). This alone suffices to debunk your assertion that Jesus was anti-Semitic and condemned the whole Jewish race!

Second, Jesus’ denunciation of the Jewish elders and religious authorities by no means supports your other faulty assertion that Jesus referred to the textual corruption of the Jewish Scripture. Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus accuse Jewish priests of textually corrupting or distorting the Law of God.

**
That was bad. They did not even once tell the Romans that Jesus needs to be stoned to death. They were crying hoarse that he should be Crucified. So you are wrong.**

John 19: 7 The Jews answered him: We have a law; and according to the law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Apparently, the Jewish crowd told Pontius Pilate the reason for their zeal to get Jesus killed. However, Jews of that time were not allowed to apply the means of execution prescribed to them in their Law while punishing criminals under the Roman jurisdiction. This is why those Jews begged the Roman authorities to punish Jesus through the Roman form of death penalty, which was crucifixion at the time.

**
I have the bible and the Quran in my support. To crucify some one is to kill a person on the cross. If the man does not die even though he is put on the cross, he is not crucified. You are giving wrong meanings to crucifixion. Suppose a man is put on the cross and nailed there but somehow, it is considered that he should be released, would you say that he was crucified? Surely not.**

Sorry, but you have neither the Bible nor the Koran with you while striving to attach new and uncanny senses to the word “crucifixion”. Your very sentences contradict you! Jesus was on the cross because He had been crucified! The reality of the act of crucifixion is not dependent on the result of that act (whether dying or surviving) as survivals do not efface the real occurrence of accidents and disasters.

This is why the passion narratives in the Gospels always present Jesus’ crucifixion and death as two related but separate incidents. Likewise, the Koran verse regarding Jesus’ passion deems it crucial to deny both Jesus’ crucifixion and death separately, contending that Jesus’ crucifixon was an indispensable part of the so-called divine illusion.

 

[morning_star777]

mr.agnos look pls,can you remember wat mr planten said to you?planten wanted some time to prove the inheritance law according to quran!did he solve it or asked for more time?mr planten wat do you think?are you ready or need more time sir?

 

[Pug]

Hi everyone. What are some of the most major flaws of Islam?

What I judge to be a flaw in a major religion may more be a reflection of myself than the religion. For example, perhaps I could consider it a flaw that some religion doesn’t present the entirety of what God has revealed. A different person might not believe in God, and so they would never raise that objection. Thus, what I consider a flaw says something about who I am. Perhaps someone who doesn’t believe in God might make objections toward a particular religion based upon what effect they believe that religion has upon its adherents or upon the societies around those adherents. I am more inclined to ask, “Is the particular religion true? That is, does its doctrine represent reality, what actually is?”

 

[Steven_John]

What I judge to be a flaw in a major religion may more be a reflection of myself than the religion. For example, perhaps I could consider it a flaw that some religion doesn’t present the entirety of what God has revealed. A different person might not believe in God, and so they would never raise that objection. Thus, what I consider a flaw says something about who I am. Perhaps someone who doesn’t believe in God might make objections toward a particular religion based upon what effect they believe that religion has upon its adherents or upon the societies around those adherents. I am more inclined to ask, “Is the particular religion true? That is, does its doctrine represent reality, what actually is?”

great post,
May The Most high God bless you and yours