Malachi Martin

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Matt16_18:
Why do I find this comment so ironic? 😃
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I don’t know, why?
 
Matt16_18 said:
Condemned to a life in purgatory for falling prey to a sinner in the VaticanKaiser, now the Vatican correspondent for Newsweek, has revealed everything in a cathartic memoir, Clerical Error: A True Story, to be published next month in the US. It reads like a Shakespearean saga of innocence, ambition, betrayal, farce and tragedy, all are played out amid the convulsions of a church breaking with the past.

Witnesses have confirmed the story. ‘Having known most of the dramatis personae, I read this true story with undivided interest and compassion,’ the renowned theologian Hans Kung says …

Kaiser, still a practising Catholic, pauses when asked if he could forgive: 'No, I’ll never forgive Martin. He wrote about demonic possession and I think he had an inside track …
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From that article: “He seduced and lived with a rich Manhattan divorcee for 30 years . . .”

If he did, he must have kept a pied a terre for himself, because I visited him at two different addresses over the years from the late 1970s through the early 1990s. We were not close friends, only acquaintances, so perhaps my testimony is inadequate. But neither apartment looked un-lived in. His accountant or an editor would sometimes be working at the Wooton desk in the bedroom while we met in the all-purpose living room/dining room/“chapel”/library . . .

I find the reports in this article highly suspect.
 
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Matt16_18:
Witnesses have confirmed the story.
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Some people refuse to accept the story, but if there are witnesses?

Why would Blair have such an axe to grind against the Jesuits and against Father Martin? What would be his motivation for writing such a history, which he says is a “true story”?
 
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stanley123:
Some people refuse to accept the story, but if there are witnesses?

Why would Blair have such an axe to grind against the Jesuits and against Father Martin? What would be his motivation for writing such a history, which he says is a “true story”?
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You read the book and believed his side of the story? It didn’t seem to you that he came across as self-righteous and critical of everyone else but himself? Did he seem like a sympathetic person to you? He came across seriously lacking in morals, character, compassion, or love for anyone but himself. I found his slash-and-burn style–disparaging Catholic clerics–to be shameful. But then I dislike anti-Catholicism in general, and in particular, when people who claim to be Catholic are vicious about the Church or our clerics.
 
La Chiara:
You read the book and believed his side of the story? It didn’t seem to you that he came across as self-righteous and critical of everyone else but himself? Did he seem like a sympathetic person to you? He came across seriously lacking in morals, character, compassion, or love for anyone but himself…
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I thought that if someone enters the seminary, especially a Jesuit seminary, that that person would have an overabundance of good morals, character, compassion and love for others. What happened in the seminary according to him, was that he was propositioned by homosexual Jesuits? I guess that this would be extremely unpleasant for anyone with good morals? After leaving the seminary, he befriended a Jesuit priest, Father Malachi Martin, who turned out to be having a secret adulterous affair with his wife, according to the book. I would also guess that this situation would not be a pleasant one for anyone with good morals and with love and compassion for his wife?
 
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stanley123:
I thought that if someone enters the seminary, especially a Jesuit seminary, that that person would have an overabundance of good morals, character, compassion and love for others. What happened in the seminary according to him, was that he was propositioned by homosexual Jesuits? I guess that this would be extremely unpleasant for anyone with good morals? After leaving the seminary, he befriended a Jesuit priest, Father Malachi Martin, who turned out to be having a secret adulterous affair with his wife, according to the book. I would also guess that this situation would not be a pleasant one for anyone with good morals and with love and compassion for his wife?
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Did you really read the book? Because you only seem to recall those two facts.

So just because a man enters a seminary, we can assume that he has an abundance of “good morals, character, compassion and love for others”? Hmmm. Clearly that isn’t the case for those alleged homosexual Jesuits who also entered the seminary but propositioned Kaiser. So entering the seminary and good morals holds true for Kaiser but not for the homosexual Jesuits, according to your logic. :confused:
 
La Chiara:
Did you really read the book? Because you only seem to recall those two facts.

So just because a man enters a seminary, we can assume that he has an abundance of “good morals, character, compassion and love for others”? Hmmm. Clearly that isn’t the case for those alleged homosexual Jesuits who also entered the seminary but propositioned Kaiser. So entering the seminary and good morals holds true for Kaiser but not for the homosexual Jesuits, according to your logic. :confused:
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My personal opinion on it, is that generally people would enter the seminary because they have good morals, character and love for others. However, it does appear, that there is a certain amount of corruption in the seminaries and some people fall down, while others with stronger morals and stronger character do not yield to these vices. So, no, I do not say, nor have I ever said that “entering the seminary and good morals holds true for Kaiser but not for the homosexual Jesuits” and this is not my logic. My reasoning on this is that some people fall in the seminary, while others do not. According to the book, Mr. Kaiser refused the immoral propositions of the homosexual Jesuits. While on the other hand, other Jesuit seminarians gave in to them.
Also, I repeat what I said above that this propositioning by homosexual Jesuits would be extremely unpleasant for anyone with good morals. And I would also guess that the adulterous affair that Father Martin was having with his wife, would not be a pleasant one for anyone with good morals and with love and compassion for his wife.
 
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stanley123:
My personal opinion on it, is that generally people would enter the seminary because they have good morals, character and love for others. However, it does appear, that there is a certain amount of corruption in the seminaries and some people fall down, while others with stronger morals and stronger character do not yield to these vices. So, no, I do not say, nor have I ever said that “entering the seminary and good morals holds true for Kaiser but not for the homosexual Jesuits” and this is not my logic. My reasoning on this is that some people fall in the seminary, while others do not. According to the book, Mr. Kaiser refused the immoral propositions of the homosexual Jesuits. While on the other hand, other Jesuit seminarians gave in to them.
Also, I repeat what I said above that this propositioning by homosexual Jesuits would be extremely unpleasant for anyone with good morals. And I would also guess that the adulterous affair that Father Martin was having with his wife, would not be a pleasant one for anyone with good morals and with love and compassion for his wife.
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The allegedly adulterous affair. We only know what Robert Blair Kaiser alleges in his book. You choose to believe him. I choose to see him as a creepy journalist who published unsubstantiated intimate allegations about his wife and a respected Catholic cleric 20 years after the fact. Whether the allegations are true or not, Kaiser acted in revenge in writing such a book. A gentleman he is not. Quite the contrary. I would bet that Kaiser is estranged from his children–the product of his first marriage—after publishing such a book which disparaged their mother. Shameful, shameful.
 
It’s good that Martin has lead to the conversion of some. It looks to me like he was an ULTRA-TRADITIONALIST wich is sad. I would think that if he is an ultra-raditionalist any of his unorthodox work should be avoided. I get a really bad feeling from this guy. I mean anyone who says Vatican 2 was invalid is heterodox. Is this his position?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon5.gif
 
La Chiara:
who published unsubstantiated intimate allegations about his wife and a respected Catholic cleric 20 years after the fact.
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One of the more salient points in the whole discussion – not one word when Fr. Martin was alive. Not one.
La Chiara:
Whether the allegations are true or not, Kaiser acted in revenge in writing such a book. A gentleman he is not. Quite the contrary. I would bet that Kaiser is estranged from his children–the product of his first marriage—after publishing such a book which disparaged their mother. Shameful, shameful.
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To which I add tawdry.

Archbishop Sheen said it all when he described envy as the tribute mediocrity pays to greatness.
 
La Chiara:
…I choose to see him as a creepy journalist who published unsubstantiated intimate allegations about his wife and a respected Catholic cleric 20 years after the fact. … Shameful, shameful.
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Yes, what he wrote is shameful. But why would he bother to write it, if it were not true? My impression was that he didn’t like what happened, and he wanted people to know about it? But of course, that’s just a guess.
 
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HagiaSophia:
One of the more salient points in the whole discussion – not one word when Fr. Martin was alive. Not one.

To which I add tawdry.

Archbishop Sheen said it all when he described envy as the tribute mediocrity pays to greatness.
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Code:
It is so nice to hear form you again Hagia. i think I have said this before, but Malachi Martin and Fr Gruner were good friends…

And to the one who insinuated that Malachi had side track with the devil, I can assure you he could never have written such a documented book if he had no experience in exorcisms. This is a terrible statement, and until one has experienced one, I wouldn’t be so quick to make that judgment…:tsktsk:
 
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