Malachy's (and others) Prophesies

[Protestant101]

There is a very good book all about Catholic teaching on prophecy.Very authoritative. Discusses in detail approved unapproved private prophecy.the book is pretty focused on Catholic teaching about end times.It is"Trial,Tribulation&Triumph Before during and after the Antichrist"by Desmond A. Birch.Excellent book!I highly recommend it.Published by Queenship Publishing co.

Well; who or what do Catholics officially teach that the “Anti-Christ” really is? I would be interested to hear more on that as it would pertain to prophecy, and would fit within this thread topic. Also, exactly where in official Catholic writings this answer could be found would be very interesting to me.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Well; who or what do Catholics officially teach that the “Anti-Christ” really is? I would be interested to hear more on that as it would pertain to prophecy, and would fit within this thread topic. Also, exactly where in official Catholic writings this answer could be found would be very interesting to me.

Here are a couple of posts addressing this from the Ask an Apologist area here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=11818&highlight=antichrist

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=11827&highlight=antichrist

 

[Protestant101]

Here are a couple of posts addressing this from the Ask an Apologist area here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=11818&highlight=antichrist

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=11827&highlight=antichrist

Thanks; I never thought to look there. These links were helpful to get a glimpse of Catholic teachings on prophecy.

Let me quote something from the second link:

1. Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

1/ What is “the sensus fidelium?”

2/ This is the kind of thing that makes Catholic views on prophecy very confusing. They seem to lump almost all prophecies into the “private revelation” categories. And of course, “private revelation” can never be know for certain, if it is true.

**3/**Then they say that the church “recognizes” some prophecies. What does this mean?

4/ Apparently, in Catholic views, prophecy does not belong to “the deposit of faith.” Of what value is it then, for the Catholic Church to “recognize” a given prophecy?

5/ Can you name the top 3 prophecies “recognized” by the Catholic Church?

6/ What proof can you offer to show Protestants, and others interested, that there will be no more prophecies “after Christ?” (I read this in another place on one of the two links you gave).

7/ It doesn’t seem right to say there will be no prophecies after Christ, and yet, the Catholic Church, well after Christ, will “recognize” certain prophecies. Can you explain that better for me? (please… ).

8/ What is meant by “live more fully” by a given prophecy?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Public revelation ended with the last Apostle.

Jesus and the Father have no need for adding a PS – hence no public revelation after that point.

The Church teaches that no one has to believe in private revelation – so there is no ‘top three’ etc unless you have personal interest in such things.

My ‘proof’ that there are no more public revelation? Jesus did not do a half assed job. :doh2:

 

[Protestant101]

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. Rev. 16:13

Here is another, related question. The above text is certainly not “private revelation;” and therefore, I would like to know exactly what catholics teach about this verse, and related or similar verses.

1/ what or who is “the dragon?”

2/ what or who is “the beast?”

3/ what or who is “the false prophet?”

None of these three things are in the plural sense; therefore your answer should be quite specific.

I actually disagree with the Catholic concept of “private revelation;” but maybe I should wait till there have been some replies to my already numerous questions above. Thanks, in advance for your patience, in helping to answer my questions. I know I ask a lot, but how else will I learn what you teach and believe on this?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

There is no ‘official’ definition (to my knowledge) of those items.

 

[Conservative]

the irish have it right, malachy’s prophesies are really malarkey.

They are fake!

Ambiguous…? You should get a copy of the Catholic book, Prophecy for Today. It includes approved and not-yet-approved (or unapproved) prophesies, some from visions and saints. BTW, Pope Benedict is not the last Pope in the prophesies. There is one after him mentioned. I’m neutral towards the prophesies; although they do seem to be somewhat accurate (at least to me). I guess we’ll find out when Petrus Romanus comes.

I’ve wondered same - are they real or sort of lived out by the upcoming Cardinals who have read these prophecies. Robert Ambrose and Thistle, are your comments based on personal opinion or something you’ve heard? (I’m not arguing - just curious.) Also, I’ve always wondered where the “false popes” fit into the prophecies.

But it seems some may give it credence. The book of St. Malachy’s prophecies tells that during one conclave, (based on the prophecy of the next Pope being shepherd and mariner) one cardinal sailed up the Tiber (river name ???) with sheep. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know…But if so, it means the Cardinals take the prophecies with more than just a grain of salt. It should be noted that the referred-to Cardinal wasn’t elected Pope - rather it was John XXIII, from Venice and therefore the mariner reference.)

Pope Benedict (“the glory of the olive”) - was the name ‘Benedict’ a deliberate choice or personal preference - (Olivetan reference - the thought was the Pope would come from Benedictine Order)? Now having these prophecies published for the world to read, it’s harder to discern or to keep the human element (hey, the Cardinals are only human) from interfering. But if the prophecies aren’t malarkey, it’s frightening to think where we stand if there’s only one more Pope? Only God knows.

 

[mangy_dog]

Here is another, related question. The above text is certainly not “private revelation;” and therefore, I would like to know exactly what catholics teach about this verse, and related or similar verses.

1/ what or who is “the dragon?”

2/ what or who is “the beast?”

3/ what or who is “the false prophet?”

None of these three things are in the plural sense; therefore your answer should be quite specific.

I actually disagree with the Catholic concept of “private revelation;” but maybe I should wait till there have been some replies to my already numerous questions above. Thanks, in advance for your patience, in helping to answer my questions. I know I ask a lot, but how else will I learn what you teach and believe on this?

 

[Conservative]

ahumm… .,
But.
Here is one Papal vision/prophesy that I like;

"Exactly 33 years to the day prior to the great Miracle of the Sun in Fatima, that is, on October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a remarkable vision. When the aged Pontiff had finished celebrating Mass in his private Vatican Chapel, attended by a few Cardinals and members of the Vatican staff, he suddenly stopped at the foot of the altar. He stood there for about 10 minutes, as if in a trance, his face ashen white. Then, going immediately from the Chapel to his office, he composed the prayer to St. Michael, with ,
The guttural voice, the voice of Satan in his pride, boasted to Our Lord:
“I can destroy your Church.”

The gentle voice of Our Lord:
“You can? Then go ahead and do so.”

Satan:
“To do so, I need more time and more power.”

Our Lord:
"How much time? How much power?

Satan:
“75 to 100 years, and a greater power over those
who will give themselves over to my service.”

Our Lord:
“You have the time, you will have the power.
Do with them what you will.” "

Prayer of St. Michael

Saint Michael, the Archangel, defend us on the day of battle; be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the evil spirits, who prowl through the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

Okay - now, if I wasn’t already scared - the quoted conversation really frightened me = Matter of fact, I found myself going for the Holy Water. But it begs this question. While we can’t speak for God or assume His intentions, has this conversation been confirmed?

 

[mangy_dog]

Here is another, related question. The above text is certainly not “private revelation;” and therefore, I would like to know exactly what catholics teach about this verse, and related or similar verses.

1/ what or who is “the dragon?”

2/ what or who is “the beast?”

3/ what or who is “the false prophet?”

None of these three things are in the plural sense; therefore your answer should be quite specific.

I actually disagree with the Catholic concept of “private revelation;” but maybe I should wait till there have been some replies to my already numerous questions above. Thanks, in advance for your patience, in helping to answer my questions. I know I ask a lot, but how else will I learn what you teach and believe on this?

The red dragon is atheist communism
The black beast is Freemasonry
The false prophet…well the false prophet is the false prophet!
Comprende?

 

[jrabs]

The red dragon is atheist communism
The black beast is Freemasonry
The false prophet…well the false prophet is the false prophet!
Comprende?

Mind you, the Catholic Church has not said this. Just so as not to confuse the OP.

 

[Thing]

Okay - now, if I wasn’t already scared - the quoted conversation really frightened me = Matter of fact, I found myself going for the Holy Water. But it begs this question. While we can’t speak for God or assume His intentions, has this conversation been confirmed?

That, I cannot say at present. But the idea of a provenance is useful, and such a story would be very wild and dangerous if inaccurate. And then the prayer of St. Michael is a tangable fact.

 

[Polaris]

Okay - now, if I wasn’t already scared - the quoted conversation really frightened me = Matter of fact, I found myself going for the Holy Water. But it begs this question. While we can’t speak for God or assume His intentions, has this conversation been confirmed?

No reason to be, that was in 1884. Its past 1984.
Then again what is a year to God, that might be another 20billion years. hehehehe
Personally I see no point to this at all. If God did do that you have no power and you cant change Gods mind, even with a brand new prayer to an angel. He will not protect you, or help you do anything against his agreement with satan because that would make him a liar to satan which is against the nature of God.

 

[Protestant101]

The red dragon is atheist communism
The black beast is Freemasonry
The false prophet…well the false prophet is the false prophet!
Comprende?

What proof can you offer for these three answers? LOL; I liked your third answer - that was funny…:extrahappy:

 

[Thing]

A couple more prophecies to consider;

(1) Prophecy of St. Edward the Confessor
Ambrose Lisle Philipps in a letter to the Earl of Shrewsbury dated 28 October, 1850, in giving a sketch of English Catholic history, relates the following vision or prophecy made by St. Edward: “During the month of January, 1066, the holy King of England St. Edward the Confessor was confined to his bed by his last illness in his royal Westminster Palace. St. Ælred, Abbott of Rievaulx, in Yorkshire, relates that a short time before his happy death, this holy king was wrapt in ecstasy, when two pious Benedictine monks of Normandy, whom he had known in his youth, during his exile in that country, appeared to him, and revealed to him what was to happen to England in future centuries, and the cause of the terrible punishment. They said: ‘The extreme corruption and wickedness of the English nation has provoked the just anger of God. When malice shall have reached the fullness of its measure, God will, in His wrath, send to the English people wicked spirits, who will punish and afflict them with great severity, by separating the green tree from its parent stem the length of three furlongs. But at last this same tree, through the compassionate mercy of God, and without any national (governmental) assistance, shall return to its original root, reflourish and bear abundant fruit.’ After having heard these prophetic words, the saintly King Edward opened his eyes, returned to his senses, and the vision vanished. He immediately related all he had seen and heard to his virgin spouse, Edgitha, to Stigand, Archbishop of Canterbury, and to Harold, his successor to the throne, who were in his chamber praying around his bed.” (See “Vita beati Edwardi regis et confessoris”, from manuscript Selden 55 in Bodleian Library, Oxford.)

The interpretation given to this prophecy is remarkable when applied to the events which have happened. The spirits mentioned in it were the Protestant innovators who pretended, in the sixteenth century, to reform the Catholic Church in England. The severance of the green tree from its trunk signifies the separation of the English Church from the root of the Catholic Church, from the Roman See. This tree, however, was to be separated from its life-giving root the distance of “three furlongs”. These three furlongs are understood to signify three centuries, at the end of which England would again be reunited to the Catholic Church, and bring forth flowers of virtue and fruits of sanctity. The prophecy was quoted by Ambrose Lisle Philipps on the occasion of the reestablishment of the Catholic hierarchy in England by Pope Pius IX in 1850.

(2) Prophecies of St. Malachy
Concerning Ireland

This prophecy, which is distinct from the prophecies attributed to St. Malachy concerning the popes, is to the effect that his beloved native isle would undergo at the hands of England oppression, persecution, and calamities of every kind, during a week of centuries; but that she would preserve her fidelity to God and to His Church amidst all her trials. At the end of seven centuries she would be delivered from her oppressors (or oppressions), who in their turn would be subjected to dreadful chastisements, and Catholic Ireland would be instrumental in bringing back the British nation to that Divine Faith which Protestant England had, during three hundred years, so rudely endeavoured to wrest from her. This prophecy is said to have been copied by the learned Dom Mabillon from an ancient manuscript preserved at Clairvaux, and transmitted by him to the martyred successor of Oliver Plunkett.

 

[mangy_dog]

What proof can you offer for these three answers? LOL; I liked your third answer - that was funny…:extrahappy:

Glad you enjoyed that.

They are all from private revelation and from apparitions of the Virgin Mary. Approved and un-approved.

See also “The Thunder of Justice”. In it you will find references to the approved and un-approved apparitions which talk about the images in the book of Apocalypse.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Thing with prophecy and private revelation (or those just outside the church altogether like Nostradamus) is you are working not only with 20/20 hindsight but freely edited force fit of events and people.