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MrS
Guest
God bless you for you willingness to do just that.
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
Thank you sir. God bless you.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Dig your history on Christianity and you’ll find the truth.
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Gracie2004
Guest
I was Baptist for 40 years myself. You made an interesting statement here, hoosier (my brother is a hoosier also). You said you get your beliefs, or rather, the Baptists do from John the Baptist. That would make them Jewish, not Baptist, as John the Baptist was Jewish, was of a priestly line.
Gracie
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
**I was Baptist for 40 years myself. You made an interesting statement here, hoosier (my brother is a hoosier also). You said you get your beliefs, or rather, the Baptists do from John the Baptist. That would make them Jewish, not Baptist, as John the Baptist was Jewish, was of a priestly line.
Gracie**
Hi Gracie. Well, I hope to be a Hoosier soon. My fiancee lives in Indiana.
I see what you’re saying but I didn’t clarify exactly what I meant. I think we just follow him on baptism (immersion). I understand he was a Jew. However, aren’t the Jews and the Church one and the same? We have been grafted in.
Gracie**
Hi Gracie. Well, I hope to be a Hoosier soon. My fiancee lives in Indiana.
I see what you’re saying but I didn’t clarify exactly what I meant. I think we just follow him on baptism (immersion). I understand he was a Jew. However, aren’t the Jews and the Church one and the same? We have been grafted in.
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The_Catholic
Guest
These were excellent answers!Doubt is not the enemy of faith…fear is.Stop and think about that for a second. The issue is if there were blood siblings of Jesus. Is there evidence of this? No there is not. Is there misinterpretations of the Word of God that say there were? Yes. Bear in mind that even Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin all believed in Mary’s perpetual virginity. PM me if you need more citations…I’ve got 'em.
Why would this bother you? God has assumed many people in the context of thw Bible has He not?
Consider: If He assumed Moses and Enoch and some of the prophets of the OT, why would He not do it for the second most unique person in all of history aside from Christ Himself? Mary’s holiness and relationship with God are well known. As for Traditional documentation, have you seen this.That is not a defined dogma of the faith, so blow it off. However, since Mary is the mother of Jesus and all grace does come through Him, then, in an indirect sort of way one can say that graces did indeed come through her. I do not believe that Mary’s prayers are necessary for our salvation and the church has never taught that to my knowledge.
Ligouri can be wrong…that is not infallible.I know of no Biblical source that indicates that Mary sinned, do you?
Those ECF may have been conjecturing, since they did not know the Blessed Virgin first hand, did they?
I have no problem with the idea that the Blessed Virgin may have led a sinless life. The fullness of grace in her life and the fact that she lived every day of the life of Our Lord with Him, having been the very first believer by virtue of her fiat all indicate to me that possiblilty.
Considering that actually living with and raising Our Lord from birth consititutes the most intense example of a “personal relationship with Jesus” (to use the n-C term) that I can imagine, I find it not incredible at all.
Don’t be leaving the faith my brother. PM me if you need to talk more seriously and personally.
Pax tecum,
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GoldenArrow
Guest
I haven’t read all five pages, so please forgive me if this has already been addressed. I’ll try to answer some of your questions.
A lady at church last night presented me with the BEST argument I’ve ever heard in favor of neither Joseph nor Mary having had any other children besides Jesus. From the cross, Jesus cried out to St. John, “Son, behold your Mother,” and to Mary, “Woman, behold your son.” Our Lord was placing Mary in the care of St. John, and at the same time, was placing John in the care of Mary. Why would Christ have placed Mary in the care of an Apostle rather than one of his blood brothers? If there had been another brother or sister (by blood) of Christ, a child of Mary and Joseph, then there would have been no need to place her in the care of St. John. Correct?
“If the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal one…Had she been martyred according to what is written: ‘Thine own soul a sword shall pierce’, then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world.” Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).
My own argument is this:
If Enoch and Elijah were pure enough to be assumed into Paradise, how much more so for the Mother of God? Enoch and Elijah borne of Original Sin, cleansed themselves through faith, obedience and penance. But Mary was preserved, wholly undefiled. AT THE VERY LEAST … Mary would’ve been Assumed into Paradise and at the VERY MOST, she would’ve been Assumed into Heaven. Me? I say that the sancity of Mary exceeds the sanctity of Enoch and Elijah as a mole-hill is compared to a mountain.
We call Mary the Mediatrix of all Graces because Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ and is mother of the Mystical Body of Christ. As the Word was made flesh of her flesh, so the souls within the Church are fashioned into the Mystical Body of Christ through grace of her grace. Jesus Christ was nestled within the womb of Mary for 9 months before His birth. The Church is also nestled within the womb of Mary before being borne again through Baptism. The Word came into the world in the flesh through Mary, and so the Church will come into the world in grace through Mary. Jesus is the Only begotten Son. But are we not adopted sons and daughters of God through Grace? If you think of this as a parallelism, then you’ll better understand this teaching.
God Bless!
The source of your confusion may be the Apocryphal books, some of whom say that Joseph was a widower who already had children prior to marrying Mary. The Old Catholic Encyclopedia mentions this, however, with one qualifier: that had Joseph married Mary when he was very old and she very young, it would have been a scandal. The truth is: we don’t know if Joseph had children from a prior marriage. I tend to believe not. In fact, I’d go as far as to say that they were BOTH virgins.
A lady at church last night presented me with the BEST argument I’ve ever heard in favor of neither Joseph nor Mary having had any other children besides Jesus. From the cross, Jesus cried out to St. John, “Son, behold your Mother,” and to Mary, “Woman, behold your son.” Our Lord was placing Mary in the care of St. John, and at the same time, was placing John in the care of Mary. Why would Christ have placed Mary in the care of an Apostle rather than one of his blood brothers? If there had been another brother or sister (by blood) of Christ, a child of Mary and Joseph, then there would have been no need to place her in the care of St. John. Correct?
Oh, but it is implied …
“If the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal one…Had she been martyred according to what is written: ‘Thine own soul a sword shall pierce’, then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world.” Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).
My own argument is this:
If Enoch and Elijah were pure enough to be assumed into Paradise, how much more so for the Mother of God? Enoch and Elijah borne of Original Sin, cleansed themselves through faith, obedience and penance. But Mary was preserved, wholly undefiled. AT THE VERY LEAST … Mary would’ve been Assumed into Paradise and at the VERY MOST, she would’ve been Assumed into Heaven. Me? I say that the sancity of Mary exceeds the sanctity of Enoch and Elijah as a mole-hill is compared to a mountain.
All graces don’t pass through the hands of Mary. The graces bestowed upon Mary herself did not pass through her own hands to herself. Other than this exception, most graces pass down to the Church through the hands of Mary. (That is, unless someone else can think of another exception).
We call Mary the Mediatrix of all Graces because Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ and is mother of the Mystical Body of Christ. As the Word was made flesh of her flesh, so the souls within the Church are fashioned into the Mystical Body of Christ through grace of her grace. Jesus Christ was nestled within the womb of Mary for 9 months before His birth. The Church is also nestled within the womb of Mary before being borne again through Baptism. The Word came into the world in the flesh through Mary, and so the Church will come into the world in grace through Mary. Jesus is the Only begotten Son. But are we not adopted sons and daughters of God through Grace? If you think of this as a parallelism, then you’ll better understand this teaching.
God Bless!
I
itsjustdave1988
Guest
John Smyth, who started the first Baptist parish, baptized himself (where’s that in Scripture?) by POURING, the baptized the rest of his congregation by POURING. According to Baptist scholars, this was how Baptists baptized for their first 100 years.
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