Marital Mutual Masturbation

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My husband engages me on mutual masturbation up to climax. IT IS AGAINST MY WILL but due to threats of marital discord, I felt threatened to abide. Am I committing mortal sin even if I do not have my full consent on it. As I said, it is against my will and desire.
 
The female climax does not play a role in the procreation aspect of the marital act, and therefore it is not sinful to be done via mutual masturbation if it is done in part of the unitive aspect. If you do not enjoy it and do not like it, then he should not be doing it.
 
It is very pleasant to see that many are concerned about maintaining chastity even in wedlock.

Culpability certainly is diminished concerning to what you experience because there are many ways to force someone to do something. However if you do this to him, it is - as far as I can tell gravely immoral. I mean that masturbation is always gravely immoral for the simple fact that it is rooted on lust, an intrinsic evil, but when you do this to him, it is also against conception. We are “written” in different ways, and have different responsibilities.

If you need strong advice you can trust on and act on, you should mention this to a priest. After all, confessionals should offer the possibility of speaking behind a veil if you are uncomfortable to dialogue with a priest face to face about such intimate topics.

But right now you should definitely not do this as far as I can tell (I refer to bringing him to climax in a way that is not open to conception). Since the splendor and holiness of wedlock is not just for procreation but also for mutual union, you should feel no threat otherwise this could lead to major issues. Feel free to calmly talk to him, even in wedlock, and most naturally mention that you are not comfortable and do not want to do this. If he loves you as a whole and does not see you as an instrument of pleasure, he will agree (perhaps with a bit of difficulty, for lust is hard to defeat). Is he Catholic/Christian/religious at all? If yes, he will understand more easily where does your discomfort come from. After all, a spouse wishes to please his/her spouse, not to make them feel uncomfortable.

Do not be afraid of putting Christ above him and above anyone else, especially yourself. Better to face difficulties for the sake of Christ than to find ourselves in sad places because we did not have the courage to do what was proper.
 
I think there should be more concern about the fact that she is being touched sexually against her will.

Is this just, “Honey, no, not tonight…”

Or…
 
My husband engages me on mutual masturbation up to climax. IT IS AGAINST MY WILL but due to threats of marital discord, I felt threatened to abide. Am I committing mortal sin even if I do not have my full consent on it. As I said, it is against my will and desire.
Should we be concerned, about the part which I highlighted?
Are there many other things that you do “against your will” to keep the peace? I will say that my father is just as irascible now as he was ages ago despite my mother bending over backwards to please him (speaking metaphorically here, not referring to the Kama Sutra or anything) all those years. You might rethink your strategy. It is my hope that God will call him “home” or wherever he’s headed soon. But I digress. Don’t worry, if you’re somehow coerced, it decreases your moral responsibility or nullifies it even. I hope he’s more of a gentleman in other areas of your lives.
 
I think there should be more concern about the fact that she is being touched sexually against her will.
I think you missed the point: what I think she meant was against her will was what she did, not what he did, because she could see that the concrete sin against life was in her doing, though lust is a sin in itself worth worrying.
 
Should we be concerned, about the part which I highlighted?
Not necessarily. Sometimes, a couple will have established practices that are not allowed by the Church, long before one of them returns to the Church. These practices are part of their "normal’ sexual activity but now, the Catholic or more Catholic partner sees things in a different way, and no longer wants to participate in the previous activities. Yet the spouse who enjoys that particular sexual act still wants it to go on. Thus, the partner who is trying to live up to the Church’s standard is in distress when the practice is done, yet does not want to cause discord in the marriage.

It is not exactly forced, but not exactly done of free will.
 
In the marriage, by principle there are natural presumptions of romantic touchings, of sensual touchings and of sexual touchings, and even presumptions of marital act.** It is only a presumption for both of them, male and female. These presumptions are not irrefragable,** of course. The contrary proof can use in the lawsuit. But the regime of this contrary proof should not be the same than with between unmarried persons: more stricter to show the contrary proofs and to agree with, and of course, more stricter in the offense and in its punishment, because of conjugal vows in order to respect the other. I know this position is not totally in link with different type of secular mentalities: radical feminism that is okay with the more gravity of punishment, but not on the same line for the presumptions in favor of agreements of intimate touchings, the machism, the sexism of male that can contest the notion of marital rape or is not okay with a more gravity of punishment…etc.

For information, in the context of marital act, the sexual touchings for the stimulation, for the arousing, for excitation, for the orgasm of female and for the sexual appeasement , on all the body, even on external sexual parts of the other before, during and just after the complete union of bodies, **are not constitutive elements of masturbation. In catholicism, it is not the mutual masturbation. **The sexual touchings on the other, only for showing the affection and the tenderness without intention to reach orgasm and if there is no orgasm, are not , by nature, evil acts.
 
My husband engages me on mutual masturbation up to climax. IT IS AGAINST MY WILL but due to threats of marital discord, I felt threatened to abide. Am I committing mortal sin even if I do not have my full consent on it. As I said, it is against my will and desire.
About the coitus interruptus:

The voluntary coitus interruptus that is bilateral, in which husband withdraws before the completion of the act, and he finishes it outside, is morally wrong, for him and for her, if they (him and her) agree with that (their intentions to both of them). =====> IMMORAL FOR HIM AND HER.

The voluntary coitus interruptus that is bilateral, in which wife “withdraws” (keeps away from him) before the completion of the act, and he finishes it outside, is morally wrong, for her and for him, if they (her and him) agree with that (their intentions to both of them). =====> IMMORAL FOR HER AND HIM.

The Coitus interruptus, in which husband withdraws before the completion of the act, and he finishes it outside, is morally wrong, for him only, if he agrees with that, and if she does not agree with that (not her intention, she is passive): for her, that is not immoral. =====> IMMORAL ONLY FOR HIM.

The Coitus interruptus, in which wife “withdraws” (keeps away from him) before the completion of the act, and he finishes it outside, is morally wrong, for her only, if she agrees with that, and if he does not agree with that (not his intention, he is passive): for him, that is not immoral. =====> IMMORAL ONLY FOR HER.

The involuntary " coitus interruptus ", coming from him, coming from her, or coming from them (him and her) because of an accident in link with exterior events, is not immoral, for both of them. BECAUSE INVOLUNTARY, OF COURSE. =====> NOT IMMORAL FOR HER, FOR HIM OR FOR BOTH.

HERE, I AM SURE OF THOSE SOLUTIONS

In addition, in my opinion (see with a priest) if the husband begins the foreplay on his wife with the intention to complete the act, but her wife does not want the natural end, but says nothing to her husband during foreplay and says to him not to go further only at the moment where he wants the start of union (you know what i mean), the husband is not guilty if he wants to lead and to finish the act, and if he attempts to explain to her of ending the complete act. If she refuses, it is her responsability, only. The violence of husband is not fair, he does not have to force her to enter inside her for the ending.

The same reasoning, in the case where the wife begins the foreplay on her husband (see with the priest).

** HERE, IN THOSE TWO CASES, I AM NOT TOTALLY SURE. SEE WITH THE PRIEST.**
 
My husband engages me on mutual masturbation up to climax. IT IS AGAINST MY WILL but due to threats of marital discord, I felt threatened to abide. Am I committing mortal sin even if I do not have my full consent on it. As I said, it is against my will and desire.
An expample:
If the wife says to her husband: We cannot do this [the complete marital act, but she is okay for sexual outcourses, and a few times the husband persists and have normal penetration, after negotiations with her, in which he does not last long and finishes partially inside his wife, who is absolutely furious at him of doing this. He feels like he was guilty of sin of not going with her wishes, and almost like, it was partial rape.

In this situation, I state that:
In the marriage and in the catholic moral (natural moral law of marriage), there is a natural presumption of marital act (vaginal penetration and vaginal ejaculation) between spouses and a natural presumption of sexual caresses (sexual touchings in the human fashion).

In this case, it is not a conjugal rape because she agrees with the vaginal penetration, even after negotiations, but not okay with vaginal ejaculation, in knowing that in the mind of his husband, he wants to be inside her at the moment of his ejaculation.

She should have refused the vaginal penetration or she should have been very careful for going away from him at the moment of his vaginal ejaculation, even if this type of behavior, from her, is morally wrong. Her husband is not guilty of conjugal rape or of partial conjugal rape. The fact of saying the contrary is and would be absurd: feminist, relativist, modernist, progressist, gender theory.

The fact of finishing partially inside her vagina against his will or totally outside, because she refuses the complete act, by her withdraw, or her almost withdraw, is not sinful for him, but for her, it is wrong (immoral) for wife.

**No conjugal rape, in this special situation, in my humble opinion. He seems to me that there is no physical violence, stricto sensu and no real mental or psychological violence She knows the sexual rules of state of marriage.

I know that the radical feminists will be against me. For me, it is not a problem. If a real physical violence, it is different.

Do you agree with that? Are you on the same line than me? May be, I am very wrong???
 
I know that the radical feminists will be against me. For me, it is not a problem. If a real physical violence, it is different.
Do you really think the only real violence that can be perpetrated against the person, is physical? :eek: :confused:

Sarah x 🙂
 
Do you really think the only real violence that can be perpetrated against the person, is physical? :eek: :confused:

Sarah x 🙂
My fundamental values

As catholic lay person, my line is the respect of moral natural law of human beings, I mean the humanity, male and female, created by God. My natural values are coming from the Creator. The humanity is composed of males with all the corollaries and also is composed of females with all the corallaries.

In front of God, we are equal in dignity with the same rights, duties and obligations and with special rights, duties and obligations in function of sex: this is the equality and the equity in function of sex. The male is a man, the female is a woman. Man has to stay male, woman has to stay female. Man does not have to want be a female, woman does not have to want be a male, each gender (sex) has to accept its body, its soul with their own corollaries. This is the dual humanity, body and soul and male and female: it is the nature wanted by God. The male has to respect the female and the female has to respect the male.

Because of the original sin and the bad effect of concupiscence, the male wants to dominate the female, and the woman want to seduce, in the wrong way, the male. As catholic, we have to avoid that. it is a moral obligation. Each one has to try to respect its vocation of male and its vocation of female. As catholic man, I have to have a huge consideration for the woman. In my mind, woman is the most beautiful creature of the creation, she is on the top of the natural creation wanted by God. She is potential lover, potential wife and potential mother. For a catholic man, she has to be his natural complementarity. For a catholic, woman is so divine. The bashing of woman is a social and moral scandal. It is very immoral. It is absurd. I do not tolerate that. I am very sad of that.

In the marriage, the woman is or should be the " New Eve of her Man " and the " Saint Mary Magdalene of her husband ", I mean: the Female, the Fiancée, the Bride, the Sweetheart, the Love, the Mistress, the Lover, the Beloved, the Muse, the Friend, the Best-friend, the Girlfriend, the Helper, the Soul-Mate, the Companion, the Partner, the Associate, the Wife and the Potential Mother, the Educator, the Teacher, the Professor, the Thinker, the Philosopher, the Schoolgirl, the Pupil, the Student, the Follower, the Female Opposite Number, the Alterity, the Complementarity, the Princess, the Queen, the Doctress, the Nurse, the Guide of her Husband and the Person who reveals in him, his part of feminity and helps his masculinity. Female has to understand the normal sexuality of her male. Wife is the teacher of the sexuality of her husband, she is also the professor of the sexuality of her husband, and then she is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of her husband.

In the marriage, the man is or should be to be the " New Adam of his wife" and the " Holy Beloved of his wife" , I mean: the Male, the Fiancé, the Bridegroom, the Sweetheart, the Love, the Lover, the Beloved, the Companion, the Friend, the Best friend, the Boy-friend, the Helper, the Soul-Mate, the Companion, the Partner, the Associate, the Husband and the potential Father, the Educator, the Teacher, the Professor, the Thinker, the Philosopher, the Master, the Mentor, the Follower, the Schoolboy, the Pupil, the Student, the Male Opposite Number, the Alterity, the Complementarity, The Prince, The King, the Doctor, the Nurse, the Guide of his Wife, and The Person who reveals in her, her part of masculinity and helps her feminity. Husband is the teacher of the sexuality of his wife, he is also the professor of the sexuality of his wife, and then he is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of his wife.

In conclusion:
the Masculinism, the radical feminism, the sexism from male, the sexism from female, the theory of gender, the misandry, the misogyny, the theoretical homosexualism, the negationism of alterity and of the complementarity of male and female, the negationism of the sexuation, the relativism of the sexuation…etc. All those heresies or those ideologies are wrong, are dangerous, are not very natural. As catholic, I have to avoid them. And there are two type of wrong approaches: by nature, by essence, by substance or by circumstances and intentions. Their moral regimes are not the same and have to be different, it is not negotiable. Here, the radical feminism is not on the same line than me and than the catholic church, it is the issue.

Of course, there are moral , mental, physical and psychological violence, but also a degree.

The wrong subtance and the wrong intentions and circumstance make the difference: not totally equal. These are the issue and the moral debate.
 
My fundamental values

As catholic lay person, my line is the respect of moral natural law of human beings, I mean the humanity, male and female, created by God. My natural values are coming from the Creator. The humanity is composed of males with all the corollaries and also is composed of females with all the corallaries.

In front of God, we are equal in dignity with the same rights, duties and obligations and with special rights, duties and obligations in function of sex: this is the equality and the equity in function of sex. The male is a man, the female is a woman. Man has to stay male, woman has to stay female. Man does not have to want to be a female, woman does not have to want to be a male, each gender (sex) has to accept its body, its soul with their own corollaries. This is the dual humanity, body and soul and male and female: it is the nature wanted by God. The male has to respect the female and the female has to respect the male.

Because of the original sin and the bad effect of concupiscence, the male wants to dominate the female, and the woman want to seduce, in the wrong way, the male. As catholic, we have to avoid that. it is a moral obligation. Each one has to try to respect its vocation of male and its vocation of female. As catholic man, I have to have a huge consideration for the woman. In my mind, woman is the most beautiful creature of the creation, she is on the top of the natural creation wanted by God. She is potential lover, potential wife and potential mother. For a catholic man, she has to be his natural complementarity. For a catholic, woman is so divine. The bashing of woman is a social and moral scandal. It is very immoral. It is absurd. I do not tolerate that. I am very sad of that.

In the marriage, the woman is or should be the " New Eve of her Man " and the " Saint Mary Magdalene of her husband ", I mean: the Female, the Fiancée, the Bride, the Sweetheart, the Love, the Mistress, the Lover, the Beloved, the Muse, the Friend, the Best-friend, the Girlfriend, the Helper, the Soul-Mate, the Companion, the Partner, the Associate, the Wife and the Potential Mother, the Educator, the Teacher, the Professor, the Thinker, the Philosopher, the Schoolgirl, the Pupil, the Student, the Follower, the Female Opposite Number, the Alterity, the Complementarity, the Princess, the Queen, the Doctress, the Nurse, the Guide of her Husband and the Person who reveals in him, his part of feminity and helps his masculinity. Female has to understand the normal sexuality of her male. Wife is the teacher of the sexuality of her husband, she is also the professor of the sexuality of her husband, and then she is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of her husband.

In the marriage, the man is or should be to be the " New Adam of his wife" and the " Holy Beloved of his wife" , I mean: the Male, the Fiancé, the Bridegroom, the Sweetheart, the Love, the Lover, the Beloved, the Companion, the Friend, the Best friend, the Boy-friend, the Helper, the Soul-Mate, the Companion, the Partner, the Associate, the Husband and the potential Father, the Educator, the Teacher, the Professor, the Thinker, the Philosopher, the Master, the Mentor, the Follower, the Schoolboy, the Pupil, the Student, the Male Opposite Number, the Alterity, the Complementarity, The Prince, The King, the Doctor, the Nurse, the Guide of his Wife, and The Person who reveals in her, her part of masculinity and helps her feminity. Husband is the teacher of the sexuality of his wife, he is also the professor of the sexuality of his wife, and then he is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of his wife.

In conclusion:
the Masculinism, the radical feminism, the sexism from male, the sexism from female, the theory of gender, the misandry, the misogyny, the theoretical homosexualism, the negationism of alterity and of the complementarity of male and female, the negationism of the sexuation, the relativism of the sexuation…etc. All those heresies or those ideologies are wrong, are dangerous, are not very natural. As catholic, I have to avoid them. And there are two type of wrong approaches: by nature, by essence, by substance or by circumstances and intentions. Their moral regimes are not the same and have to be different, it is not negotiable. Here, the radical feminism is not on the same line than me and than the catholic church, it is the issue.

Of course, there are moral violence, mental violence , physical violence and psychological violence, but also different degrees and levels.

The wrong substance and the wrong intentions and circumstance make the difference: not totally equal. These are the issue and the moral debate.
According to the Code of Canon Law ------ canon 1096 § 1" For matrimonial consent to exist, the contracting parties must be at least not ignorant that marriage is a permanent partnership between a man and a woman ordered to the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation."-----.
  1. Woman has to assume her feminity; she has to want to be a female;
  2. Man has to assume his virility (masculinity), he has to want to be a male;
  3. Woman has to receive the virility of her husband;
  4. Man has to receive the feminity of his wife;
  5. Woman has to give her whole feminity to her husband;
  6. Man has to give his whole masculinity to his wife;
The marriage is a sexed and sexual contract and a sexual and sexual institution. If you want to marry, you need to know, to agree with the natural rules and their own moral regimes.
The natural regime of the conjugal sexuality; big issue.
 
My fundamental values

As catholic lay person, my line is the respect of moral natural law of human beings, I mean the humanity, male and female, created by God. My natural values are coming from the Creator. The humanity is composed of males with all the corollaries and also is composed of females with all the corallaries.

In front of God, we are equal in dignity with the same rights, duties and obligations and with special rights, duties and obligations in function of sex: this is the equality and the equity in function of sex. The male is a man, the female is a woman. Man has to stay male, woman has to stay female. Man does not have to want be a female, woman does not have to want be a male, each gender (sex) has to accept its body, its soul with their own corollaries. This is the dual humanity, body and soul and male and female: it is the nature wanted by God. The male has to respect the female and the female has to respect the male.

Because of the original sin and the bad effect of concupiscence, the male wants to dominate the female, and the woman want to seduce, in the wrong way, the male. As catholic, we have to avoid that. it is a moral obligation. Each one has to try to respect its vocation of male and its vocation of female. As catholic man, I have to have a huge consideration for the woman. In my mind, woman is the most beautiful creature of the creation, she is on the top of the natural creation wanted by God. She is potential lover, potential wife and potential mother. For a catholic man, she has to be his natural complementarity. For a catholic, woman is so divine. The bashing of woman is a social and moral scandal. It is very immoral. It is absurd. I do not tolerate that. I am very sad of that.

In the marriage, the woman is or should be the " New Eve of her Man " and the " Saint Mary Magdalene of her husband ", I mean: the Female, the Fiancée, the Bride, the Sweetheart, the Love, the Mistress, the Lover, the Beloved, the Muse, the Friend, the Best-friend, the Girlfriend, the Helper, the Soul-Mate, the Companion, the Partner, the Associate, the Wife and the Potential Mother, the Educator, the Teacher, the Professor, the Thinker, the Philosopher, the Schoolgirl, the Pupil, the Student, the Follower, the Female Opposite Number, the Alterity, the Complementarity, the Princess, the Queen, the Doctress, the Nurse, the Guide of her Husband and the Person who reveals in him, his part of feminity and helps his masculinity. Female has to understand the normal sexuality of her male. Wife is the teacher of the sexuality of her husband, she is also the professor of the sexuality of her husband, and then she is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of her husband.

In the marriage, the man is or should be to be the " New Adam of his wife" and the " Holy Beloved of his wife" , I mean: the Male, the Fiancé, the Bridegroom, the Sweetheart, the Love, the Lover, the Beloved, the Companion, the Friend, the Best friend, the Boy-friend, the Helper, the Soul-Mate, the Companion, the Partner, the Associate, the Husband and the potential Father, the Educator, the Teacher, the Professor, the Thinker, the Philosopher, the Master, the Mentor, the Follower, the Schoolboy, the Pupil, the Student, the Male Opposite Number, the Alterity, the Complementarity, The Prince, The King, the Doctor, the Nurse, the Guide of his Wife, and The Person who reveals in her, her part of masculinity and helps her feminity. Husband is the teacher of the sexuality of his wife, he is also the professor of the sexuality of his wife, and then he is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of his wife.

In conclusion:
the Masculinism, the radical feminism, the sexism from male, the sexism from female, the theory of gender, the misandry, the misogyny, the theoretical homosexualism, the negationism of alterity and of the complementarity of male and female, the negationism of the sexuation, the relativism of the sexuation…etc. All those heresies or those ideologies are wrong, are dangerous, are not very natural. As catholic, I have to avoid them. And there are two type of wrong approaches: by nature, by essence, by substance or by circumstances and intentions. Their moral regimes are not the same and have to be different, it is not negotiable. Here, the radical feminism is not on the same line than me and than the catholic church, it is the issue.

Of course, there are moral , mental, physical and psychological violence, but also a degree.

The wrong subtance and the wrong intentions and circumstance make the difference: not totally equal. These are the issue and the moral debate.
Wonderful - but here’s the bottom line:

When a man forces his will on a woman, and forces her through emotional blackmail and threats of marital discord to co-operate with something against her will and desire, as stated by the OP - that male, is violently abusing her, betraying his vows and her trust, and is unworthy of the privilege and honor of the name ‘husband’.

Simple as that.

Sarah x 🙂
 
Simple indeed, in fact, common sense.

What he did was instead to express the same concepts by going over the Catholic position on the spouses in a rather profound way that many readers will appreciate.
 
Wonderful - but here’s the bottom line:

When a man forces his will on a woman, and forces her through emotional blackmail and threats of marital discord to co-operate with something against her will and desire, as stated by the OP - that male, is violently abusing her, betraying his vows and her trust, and is unworthy of the privilege and honor of the name ‘husband’.

Simple as that.

Sarah x 🙂
The message of the original poster is not quite clear. She needs to define some words and to give more about the context: mutual masturbation, his will, her will, why he wanted, why she did not want, the reason of her guilty, the act of her husband can be sinful, by nature or in function of circumstances and of his intentions for only him and not for her or for both.

What are the types of wrong acts? Sin of him and of her against the conjugal chastity , sin of him against the conjugal chastity, the sin of him against the wills of his wife? Conjugal chastity is not the same that chastity for single. Mortal sin or venial sin, mortal sin is not always the rule???

May be she was not sinful, in this way. She needs to know in order to have a good discerning for the future. In the marriage, forgiveness is the first principle rule between spouses. Is she scrupulous? Is he realy selfish? Does he know his rights and his obligations about sex? Does she know her rights and her obligation to do or not to do, let do or not let do about sex? See the sexual sin everything is wrong. The first rule is that the sin is personal, does she know the rules about the cooperation in the wrong act from the other and in knowing that she is passive and thus not sinful for her, but only for him.

Difference between sexual sins for her, the sexual sins for him and his machism in the sexual touchings even until the climax.

She is silent, no answer.Why? In my opinion, it is difficult to give an almost sure opinion because there are a lot of lacks in her message. In my messages I am trying to explain the general rules.

In the great lines , I am okay with you. In the details, may be not.
 
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