Marital seperation,What should I know?

[kelvinf]

And kelvin - you are making assumptions - I was in a physically, mentally, and sexually abusive marriage. I did not have a disordered sex drive when I entered my marriage nor do I have one now - nor have I been chastised this way by anyone else here on CAF - you are the only one here that seems to take bits and pieces out of context and judge. If you are going to read things and then cast things out where they were asked not to go the least you could do is get all your facts straight and go back through the last year of postings to when the first restraining orders were filed - learn a little Christian Charity on your own- and then maybe wear your own egg on your face when all of the decisions come up from the tribunal exactly as they have been predicted by countless people that deal with the tribunal day in and day out.

Whao! I didn’t mention anything about you in that post. I was generally writing about original sin, singles and married people. How can one know whether another person has been redeemed from the effect of original sin or not? I don’t have that faculty.

Seriously, I have gone through the nucleus of my post again and I can’t find anything directed at you let alone my motive, which one can’t read from my post.

I said things like “We have all inherited…” “We all need to seek…”
And interesting enough, I said that “For people who enter marriage…”
I also used words like “man”, “one” and expressed my opinion “I believe”.

And of course, when generalising, people who don’t find themselves in the mentioned situation are automatically excluded.

I understand I have been replying to your posts which tends to give you the impression that it’s about you but that’s not the case. You already rebuked me for making a reference to another thread, something I didn’t know was an issue.

Believe me, I don’t know much about your situation. On that women’s only thread, I only skimmed through the first couple of posts. Well, it so happens that you post about your situation on other “mainstream” threads but I still don’t know much. So it’s not about you.

Well, it goes without saying that first impression matters. From the word go, you already had an impression about my posts (I wouldn’t say about me ) and you might continue to have that impression.
But believe me, you have no inkling of what I think about you and your situation.

I also have my personal opinion about certain issues like parenting, child abuse, (and of course divorce) just to name some. I very well know that not everybody would be able to digest some of my comments. -]E.g if a child is abused because he or she was left to be alone by his or her parents, keeping all emotions aside, I would question why the parents didn’t chaperone their child. And in so doing, I guess some people might think I am uncharitable…/-]

I try to keep my mouth shut on issues that I know my opinion or comment(s) would’nt go down well. But I consider it unfair to a certain extend, that I can’t freely express myself (especially when what I am saying is the downright truth or just my opinion). When I tell my sister’s friend that it is not correct to lie, she always accuses me of disrespect just because…
Anyway, c’est la vie.

I have edited my posts quite a good number of times because of you, just to avoid any form of misunderstanding/misinterpretation but still…

 

[joandarc2008]

Whao! I didn’t mention anything about you in that post. I was generally writing about original sin, singles and married people. How can one know whether another person has been redeemed from the effect of original sin or not? I don’t have that faculty.

Seriously, I have gone through the nucleus of my post again and I can’t find anything directed at you let alone my motive, which one can’t read from my post.

I said things like “We have all inherited…” “We all need to seek…”
And interesting enough, I said that “For people who enter marriage…”
I also used words like “man”, “one” and expressed my opinion “I believe”.

And of course, when generalising, people who don’t find themselves in the mentioned situation are automatically excluded.

I understand I have been replying to your posts which tends to give you the impression that it’s about you but that’s not the case. You already rebuked me for making a reference to another thread, something I didn’t know was an issue.

Believe me, I don’t know much about your situation. On that women’s only thread, I only skimmed through the first couple of posts. Well, it so happens that you post about your situation on other “mainstream” threads but I still don’t know much. So it’s not about you.

Well, it goes without saying that first impression matters. From the word go, you already had an impression about my posts (I wouldn’t say about me ) and you might continue to have that impression.
But believe me, you have no inkling of what I think about you and your situation.

I also have my personal opinion about certain issues like parenting, child abuse, (and of course divorce) just to name some. I very well know that not everybody would be able to digest some of my comments. -]E.g if a child is abused because he or she was left to be alone by his or her parents, keeping all emotions aside, I would question why the parents didn’t chaperone their child. And in so doing, I guess some people might think I am uncharitable…/-]

I try to keep my mouth shut on issues that I know my opinion or comment(s) would’nt go down well. But I consider it unfair to a certain extend, that I can’t freely express myself (especially when what I am saying is the downright truth or just my opinion). When I tell my sister’s friend that it is not correct to lie, she always accuses me of disrespect just because…
Anyway, c’est la vie.

I have edited my posts quite a good number of times because of you, just to avoid any form of misunderstanding/misinterpretation but still…

OK let’s just start with a clean slate then - you are not talking of my situation - and I am not speaking of your above posts - THERE.

I believe marriage prep should be treated the same as lay order formation. Two year minimum formation. They both have lifetime comittments. why not.

 

[kelvinf]

OK let’s just start with a clean slate then - you are not talking of my situation - and I am not speaking of your above posts - THERE.

I believe marriage prep should be treated the same as lay order formation. Two year minimum formation. They both have lifetime comittments. why not.

:yup::dancing::bounce::yyeess:

I am not familiar with marriage prep and how long it normally takes but the two year minimum formation sounds great. I also do believe in the formula:
Friendship->Relationship->Engagement->Marriage.
It all boils down to a thorough discernment process during which the would-be couple should try to discern God’s will for them and to ask God and their family to bless the marriage.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Kelvin

 

[joandarc2008]

:yup::dancing::bounce::yyeess:

I am not familiar with marriage prep and how long it normally takes but the two year minimum formation sounds great. I also do believe in the formula:
Friendship->Relationship->Engagement->Marriage.
It all boils down to a thorough discernment process during which the would-be couple should try to discern God’s will for them and to ask God and their family to bless the marriage.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Kelvin

Most parishes will ask the couple to come in 6-9 months prior to the marriage. Some as little as three. Some diocese only require on weekend of pre-marital counseling. The rest is on their own. Formation for a lay order works with others that have gone on the same path carefully for two years not to mention the amount of discernment before one even approaches the Order - but yet the comittment is just as deep.

 

[Zeemeermin]

Charlotte, thank you for speaking that uncomfortable truth. My parents have been divorced for more than twice as long as they were married, but my life is still affected every day by the wreckage of that choice. I have some sympathy with the OP, as it was my mother who left and destroyed our home, regardless of what my dad wanted.

Kostya, thank you for posting from the Catechism. Whenever someone starts trying to tell you what Catholicism is, what it teaches or believes, ALWAYS refer to the Catechism. Funny how 99% of the time, you find out the person challenging you is wrong… LOL.

 

[chevalier]

Looks like my wife and I are going to seperate. What things should I know to protect myself prior to getting a lawyer? Thanks.

If you are going to get a lawyer at all, it’s probably always better to get him sooner than later. He will be prepared to tell you what you need to know about any proceedings in your state that apply to you. Before going to a lawyer, what you need to know is which lawyer to go to, so you would need to find out about the reputation of those lawyers you can choose among (which means their honesty and solidity rather than %% of cases won), plus, you’d better go to a Catholic (or similarly minded) attorney, who will understand the moral gravity of the problems involved.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Okay first off guys, just because jesus does not support divorce does not mean that they aren’t going to get one. You dont know their situation and there are times when i can definitely see why somebody WOULD want a divorce. As to the other people on here who are trying to scare the OP by saying that it will crush the kids…
that is complete BS.

Ive grown up seen my parents cheating on eachother, getting physically and emotionally abused, getting divorces and marrying other people numerous times. Im fine, and i certainly wouldn’t want life any other way. I appreciate what ive been through, and i certinaly dont cry about it and i not upset about it either. In fact, im just fine, because im so used to it. It’s never been hard for me, and ive turned out just fine.

I also know many other people who have gone through what i have and they turned out fine aswell. its not as hard as you guys think it is.

So quit worrying about the kids, it might be hard for them, but they will understand in time.

 

[Zeemeermin]

Ive grown up seen my parents cheating on eachother, getting physically and emotionally abused, getting divorces and marrying other people numerous times. Im fine, and i certainly wouldn’t want life any other way. I appreciate what ive been through, and i certinaly dont cry about it and i not upset about it either. In fact, im just fine, because im so used to it. It’s never been hard for me, and ive turned out just fine.

One of the most classic examples of defensive deflection I have ever seen. Could have come straight out of a psychology text.

It’s also total BS. No one feels the need for that level of defensiveness when everything is fine.

 

[kelvinf]

CCC 2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

 

[Zeemeermin]

CCC 2383
The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

Now, we don’t know the OP’s situation and whether this standard would apply, but the CCC states directly that in some cases, civil divorce can be accepted by the Church. It does not end the sacramental marriage, but can become a necessity in the brokenness of the human world.

 

[Della]

Not to engage in “dueling quotes” here, but what the Church has to say about culpability in divorce is just as important as citing the fact that divorce, in and of itself, is immoral:

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.

Therefore, we cannot make a blanket statement that all Catholics who divorce have gravely sinned. The spouse who tried to save the marriage, but was rejected by the other spouse is an innocent victim. Simply telling people they have sinned by going through a divorce is to say that person was the one at fault. It’s always wrong to accuse another of committing a grave sin when we don’t know if s/he was culpable.

Also, the CCC states:

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

Also, a spouse that never intended to be faithful negated his/her vows from the get-go. Under such a circumstance, no true marriage occurred in the first place, in which case the abused spouse has every right to pursue an annulment.

 

[BlueShadow123]

One of the most classic examples of defensive deflection I have ever seen. Could have come straight out of a psychology text.

It’s also total BS. No one feels the need for that level of defensiveness when everything is fine.

I guess after re-reading it, it could seem fake. Im just telling the OP that I AM fine. im so used to everything thats happened that i honestly dont care. it has not hurt me at all and im quite happy there were divorces so i could get away from some people, especially my father. I am a very nice girl, i get good grades, im ambitious, I have fun in life and i stay away from bad things (drugs, ciggs, alcohol).

I really dont know any other way to make you believe me, but im just simply telling the truth. Maybe someday in heaven when we meet, you will realize that I was telling the truth the whole time. I dont see my life as a big deal due to the fact that it IS my life. I couldn’t imagine it any other way. You can chose not to believe me, fine, but you will find out someday, that i was telling the truth all along.

 

[Zeemeermin]

And I think when you get to the point in your life where you are trying to build a marriage and make a family, have to trust in someone’s commitment to you and yours to them, you are going to realize that you are not as sanguine about all this as you think you are.

 

[BlueShadow123]

And I think when you get to the point in your life where you are trying to build a marriage and make a family, have to trust in someone’s commitment to you and yours to them, you are going to realize that you are not as sanguine about all this as you think you are.

funny you say that because marriage is not my goal in life. I dont care for getting married or having kids. My goal in life is to go places and do things that i wan to experience before i die. Marriage and kids is not one of them. I dont think that should be anyones goal. However in life, i have learned much about relationships after being in them and observing them. Due to the fact that ive learned so much in life, i think i’d be better with it than you’d assume.

 

[joandarc2008]

OK, you two let’s stop with the ad hominem attacks and leave it said that there are some situations that it could be worse to leave the children in than divorce would be for the children. For instance while divorce will have devastating effects on the psyche of a child - watching daddy beat mommy will have more devastating effects on same said child.

Is attacking individuals really a sign of Christian charity? And yes I can be just as guilty at times.

 

[BlueShadow123]

OK, you two let’s stop with the ad hominem attacks and leave it said that there are some situations that it could be worse to leave the children in than divorce would be for the children. For instance while divorce will have devastating effects on the psyche of a child - watching daddy beat mommy will have more devastating effects on same said child.

Is attacking individuals really a sign of Christian charity? And yes I can be just as guilty at times.

I have nothing to say sorry for as I was telling the truth the whole time. Many people would say that ive been through alot, but since i’ve lived it like this, its normal for me. What i have been through is my life, i couldnt see it any other way, and i sure did turn out pretty well if you ask me and my family. The person attacking me obviously just doesn’t understand that not everybody who goes through bad situations turns out to be messed up.