Marriage ... Is it a dying institution?

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It’s logical reasoning. If 2+2=4, then it necessarily follows that 4-2=2.
No, actually, your analogy doesn’t apply. You’re extrapolating from the general to the particular. Just because it is known that God intends many Catholics to marry does not mean it can be assumed that God assumes you to be married unless you are told otherwise. The problem with that analogy is that it releases the person from listening…that is, inserts the supposition that we can “safely assume” that we already know what God wants of us before God has been listened to.

You cannot even assume God wants you to be a consecrated virgin unless you hear otherwise. You have to pray, you have to listen, and it has to be an on-going activity, because merely knowing the gross fact of your state in life does not answer the question of what God wants of you.

This is what needs to be in vocational discussions: Discerning vocations is a matter for habitual prayer. There is no substitute, not for anyone.
 
Not every person has canonical impediments (depending on the personality disorder he was diagnosed with) like the man you married. He is the exception to the rule (I hope; otherwise we are in big trouble), not the norm.
I pray as well - because after the anullment process and counseling healing I would like to try giving this one more shot - but my point is that marriage is not a default vocation and that not EVERYONE that is not called to Holy Orders or Consecrated Religious Life is called to Matrimony. He is an extreme case. Some men and women cannot stay faithful for instance. Some cannot stay off drugs and alcohol. IMO it is a sad state that we have when there is a two year discernment and formation process to join lay orders which are a life time committment but you can speak to a parish priest only six months prior to your wedding date in some parishes and that involves the formation of two souls with each other. I do not so much think the institution is broken - but how we go about preparing couples for it. Maybe agree on more than we realize. 😉
 
Not every person has canonical impediments (depending on the personality disorder he was diagnosed with) like the man you married. He is the exception to the rule (I hope; otherwise we are in big trouble), not the norm.
Jeckyll-Hyde disorder which is a form of BPD/NPD with traits of sexual abusing peers and wanting sexual relationships with his parents which has carried over to the molestation of children.
 
No, actually, your analogy doesn’t apply. You’re extrapolating from the general to the particular. Just because it is known that God intends many Catholics to marry does not mean it can be assumed that God assumes you to be married unless you are told otherwise. The problem with that analogy is that it releases the person from listening…that is, inserts the supposition that we can “safely assume” that we already know what God wants of us before God has been listened to.

You cannot even assume God wants you to be a consecrated virgin unless you hear otherwise. You have to pray, you have to listen, and it has to be an on-going activity, because merely knowing the gross fact of your state in life does not answer the question of what God wants of you.

This is what needs to be in vocational discussions: Discerning vocations is a matter for habitual prayer. There is no substitute, not for anyone.
What part of “the vocation of marriage is written into our very nature” and “it is not good for the man to be alone” don’t youse people understand? How long is this discernment going to go on, until you are in your 90s and life has passed youse by? Are youse just using this as a crutch for indecision?
 
What part of “the vocation of marriage is written into our very nature” and “it is not good for the man to be alone” don’t youse people understand? How long is this discernment going to go on, until you are in your 90s and life has passed youse by? Are youse just using this as a crutch for indecision?
I’ve been married 20 years. I’m also on the vocations committee for our parish.

I’ve appended an exerpt from a message by John Paul II, marking the 42nd World Day of Prayer for Vocations. He is NOT telling young people to simply assume that they have a vocation to marriage! Neither should we.

*Whoever opens his heart to Christ will not only understand the mystery of his own existence, but also that of his own vocation; he will bear the abundant fruit of grace. The first fruit will be his growth in holiness, in the course of a spiritual journey which begins with the gift of Baptism and continues even to the fullness of perfect love (cfr ibid., 30). Living the Gospel without adding to it, the Christian becomes always increasingly capable of loving in the way that Christ loved, and welcomes the exhortation of Christ: “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Mt 5,48). He will commit himself to persevering in unity with his brothers within the communion of the Church, and he will place himself at the service of the new evangelization, to proclaim and bear witness to the wonderful truth of the saving love of God.

Dear adolescents and young people, it is to you in a particular way that I renew the invitation of Christ to “put out into the deep”. You find yourselves having to make important decisions for your future. I still hold in my heart the memory of the many opportunities I have had over the years to meet with young people, who have now become adults, some of them your own parents perhaps, or priests or religious, your teachers in the faith. I saw them, happy as young people should be, but also thoughtful, because they were conscious of a desire to give full ‘meaning’ to their lives. I came to recognise more and more how strong is the attraction in young people to the values of the spirit, and how sincere is their desire for holiness. Young people need Christ, but they also know that Christ chose to be in need of them.

Dear young men and women! Trust Christ; listen attentively to his teachings, fix your eyes on his face, persevere in listening to his Word. Allow Him to focus your search and your aspirations, all your ideals and the desires of your heart.

Now I turn to you, dear parents and Christian educators, to you dear priests, consecrated persons and catechists. God has entrusted to you the peculiar task of guiding young people on the path to holiness. Be an example to them of generous fidelity to Christ. Encourage them to “put out into the deep” without hesitation, responding eagerly to the invitation of the Lord. Some he calls to family life, others to consecrated life or to the ministerial priesthood. Help them to discern their path, and to become true friends of Christ and his true disciples. When adult Christians show themselves capable of revealing the face of Christ through their own words and example, young people are more ready to welcome His demanding message, stamped as it is with the mystery of the Cross.

Do not forget that today too there is need of holy priests, of persons wholly consecrated to the service of God! With this in mind, I want to repeat once more: “There is a pressing need to implement an extensive plan of vocational promotion, based on personal contact and involving parishes, schools, and families in the effort to foster a more attentive reflection on the essential values of life. These values reach their fulfilment in the response which each person is invited to give to God’s call, particularly when the call implies the total gift of oneself and of one’s energies for the sake of the Kingdom” (Novo millennio ineunte, 46)

To you, young people, I repeat the word of Jesus: “Duc in altum!”. In proposing His exhortation once more to you, I think at the same time of the words which Mary, his Mother, addressed to the servants at Cana in Galilee: “Do whatever he tells you” (Jn 2,5). Dear young people, Christ is asking you to “put out into the deep” and the Virgin Mary is encouraging you not to hesitate in following Him.

May an ardent prayer sustained by the motherly intercession of Mary, rise from every corner of the earth, to the heavenly Father to obtain “labourers for his harvest” (Mt 9,38). May He give zealous and holy priests to every part of his flock. Sustained by this awareness we turn to Christ, the High Priest, and we pray to Him with renewed trust:

Jesus, Son of God,
in whom the fullness of the Divinity dwells,
You call all the baptized to " put out into the deep",
taking the path that leads to holiness.
Waken in the hearts of young people the desire
to be witnesses in the world of today
to the power of your love.
Fill them with your Spirit of fortitude and prudence,
so that they may be able to discover the full truth
about themselves and their own vocation.

Our Saviour,
sent by the Father to reveal His merciful love,
give to your Church the gift
of young people who are ready to put out into the deep,
to be the sign among their brothers
of Your presence which renews and saves.

Holy Virgin, Mother of the Redeemer,
sure guide on the way towards God and towards neighbour,
You who pondered his word in the depth of your heart,
sustain with your motherly intercession
our families and our ecclesial communities,
so that they may help adolescents and young people
to answer generously the call of the Lord.
Amen.*
 
what do you interpret ‘put out into the deep’ to mean?

poster and anyone else thanks
 
what do you interpret ‘put out into the deep’ to mean?

poster and anyone else thanks
I think he is talking about the need for priests, since he said explicitly in the previous paragraph: “there is need of holy priests”.
 
what do you interpret ‘put out into the deep’ to mean?

poster and anyone else thanks
First off, it is a command taken from this scripture passage:
*While the crowd was pressing in on Jesus and listening to the word of God, he was standing by the Lake of Gennesaret. He saw two boats there alongside the lake; the fishermen had disembarked and were washing their nets. Getting into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, he asked him to put out a short distance from the shore. Then he sat down and taught the crowds from the boat.

After he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, “Put out into deep water and lower your nets for a catch.” Simon said in reply, “Master, we have worked hard all night and have caught nothing, but at your command I will lower the nets.” When they had done this, they caught a great number of fish and their nets were tearing. They signaled to their partners in the other boat to come to help them. They came and filled both boats so that they were in danger of sinking. When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at the knees of Jesus and said, “Depart from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man.” For astonishment at the catch of fish they had made seized him and all those with him, and likewise James and John, the sons of Zebedee, who were partners of Simon. Jesus said to Simon, “Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching men.” When they brought their boats to the shore, they left everything and followed him.* Luke 5:1-11

John Paul II used the phrase to remind us not to be shallow in discerning our vocations or direction in life. Rather, he says, “Trust Christ; listen attentively to his teachings, fix your eyes on his face, persevere in listening to his Word. Allow Him to focus your search and your aspirations, all your ideals and the desires of your heart” The whole process is very different from just assuming we know what God will say.

I’m also fond of this quote, which is from his homily at the canonization of St. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross, Edith Stein (Oct. 11, 1998):

The modern world boasts of the enticing door which says: everything is permitted.
It ignores the narrow gate of discernment and renunciation.
I am speaking especially to you, young Christians…Pay attention!
Your life is not an endless series of open doors!

Listen to your heart! Do not stay on the surface, but go to the heart of things!
And when the time is right, have the courage to decide!
The Lord is waiting for you to put your freedom in his good hands.

Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love,
and do not accept anything as love which lacks truth!
One without the other becomes a destructive lie…"

So you see, I am advocating for just the opposite of “just using this as a crutch for indecision”. Rather, discerning our vocation should be for every Christian a matter that goes to the heart over a long period of time, starting in youth. It is not enough to simply assuming anything at all, whether that be “God must want me to marry” or “I’ll get around to deciding some day.” To follow God’s will in our lives, there needs to be listening, deep listening, on-going listening. That is all I am saying.
 
I just finished writing and posting an article on this very subject - it compares and contrasts the Humanae Vitae prophecies of Pope Paul VI and the break down of marriage and views of women - here it is:

The Mystical Third Date

Please enjoy -

If you don’t have a facebook account you can read it here after midnight by going to the Catholic Times tab on this site:

The Mystical Third Date
👍 **Excellent reading!! Your writing should be a required reading for all Catholic school students from K-12. Have you ever considered going directly to schools and giving talks/discussions on this topic?? The information that you’ve brought forward is essential to the moral makeup of young adults especially in today’s world where moral values have taken a back seat to “anything goes.” **
 
👍 **Excellent reading!! Your writing should be a required reading for all Catholic school students from K-12. Have you ever considered going directly to schools and giving talks/discussions on this topic?? The information that you’ve brought forward is essential to the moral makeup of young adults especially in today’s world where moral values have taken a back seat to “anything goes.” **
I don’t take credit - We all allow the Holy Spirit to use us or not use us as we all have gifts.
 
The poll question does not identify “institution”?

As a sacred “institution” crafted by God for man, it cannot die. It’s kind of like Christ being the Son of God and people not believing in him. He still existed as divine and man whether there are any Christians or not.

In human terms, yes marriage and even true Christian belief is dying. Less people honor either than they did 40+ years ago. The majority of the minority left often pay lip service to “outdated” notions like good and evil, yet at the end of the day those who persist in the latter end up in hell.
 
The majority of the minority left often pay lip service to “outdated” notions like good and evil,
Are you saying there is NO good or evil in the world? What about radical Islam? :ehh:
 
Are you saying there is NO good or evil in the world? What about radical Islam? :ehh:
Just the opposite. That’s why I said “lip service” and put the word 'outdated" in quotation marks.

Maybe the sentence before it where I somehow left out a word or two confused you. I don’t know what the heck happened with the whole honor “it” thing. I must have edited it out?
 
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