Married 3 times - living in perpetual mortal sin?

[jmcrae]

But was it a Christian marriage?

It could have been a natural marriage - we also recognize natural marriages, as well.

It’s a matter for the Tribunal to determine the facts of the case. People can’t just willy-nilly decide for their own convenience that, “oh, I’m in love with someone new, so I must not have been validly married, before; therefore I give myself permission to remarry.” It has to go through the Tribunal, first.

They, and only they, can then say, “No, what you had was a contract for sex; not a true marriage.”

But not all non-Christians marry for sex - there are quite a lot of them who marry for the establishment and unification of a family, and these marriages (called “natural marriages”) are just as permanent as any Christian marriage.

I’m on my second marriage, but because my first marriage was in-valid in the eyes of the Church, I’m better off divorced and remarried.

Yes - and I’m really glad that you waited to see what the Church had to say about it, before you went ahead and remarried. That was the smart thing to do.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi,
I found this article–I thought may interest you guys:shrug: or not

Question: “What does the Bible say about divorce and remarriage?”

Answer: First of all, no matter what view one takes in the issue of divorce it is important to remember the words of the Bible from Malachi 2:16a: “I hate divorce, says the Lord God of Israel.” According to the Bible, God’s plan is that marriage be a lifetime commitment. “So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate” (Matthew 19:6). God realizes, though, that since a marriage involves two sinful human beings, divorce is going to occur. In the Old Testament, He laid down some laws in order to protect the rights of divorcees, especially women (Deuteronomy 24:1-4). Jesus pointed out that these laws were given because of the hardness of people’s hearts, not because they were God’s desire (Matthew 19:8).

The controversy over whether divorce and remarriage is allowed according to the Bible revolves primarily around Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:32 and 19:9. The phrase “except for marital unfaithfulness” is the only thing in Scripture that possibly gives God’s permission for divorce and remarriage. Many interpreters understand this “exception clause” as referring to “marital unfaithfulness” during the “betrothal” period. In Jewish custom, a man and a woman were considered married even while they were still engaged “betrothed.” Immorality during this “betrothal” period would then be the only valid reason for a divorce.

However, the Greek word translated “marital unfaithfulness” is a word which can mean any form of sexual immorality. It is can mean fornication, prostitution, adultery, etc. Jesus is possibly saying that divorce is permissible if sexual immorality is committed. Sexual relations is such an integral part of the marital bond “the two will become one flesh” (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5; Ephesians 5:31). Therefore, a breaking of that bond by sexual relations outside of marriage might be a permissible reason for divorce. If so, Jesus also has remarriage in mind in this passage. The phrase “and marries another” (Matthew 19:9) indicates that divorce and remarriage are allowed in an instance of the exception clause, whatever it is interpreted to be. It is important to note that only the innocent party is allowed to remarry. Although it is not stated in the text, the allowance for remarriage after a divorce is God’s mercy for the one who was sinned against, not for the one who committed the sexual immorality. There may be instances where the “guilty party” is allowed to remarry - but no such concept is taught in this text.

Some understand 1 Corinthians 7:15 as another “exception,” allowing remarriage if an unbelieving spouse divorces a believer. However, the context does not mention remarriage, but only says a believer is not bound to continue a marriage if an unbelieving spouse wants to leave. Others claim that abuse (spousal or child) are valid reasons for divorce even though they are not listed as such in the Bible. While this may very well be the case, it is never wise to presume upon the Word of God.

Sometimes lost in the debate over the exception clause is the fact that whatever “marital unfaithfulness” means, it is an allowance for divorce, not a requirement for divorce. Even when adultery is committed a couple can, through God’s grace, learn to forgive and begin rebuilding their marriage. God has forgiven us of so much more. Surely we can follow His example and even forgive the sin of adultery (Ephesians 4:32). However, in many instances, a spouse is unrepentant and continues in sexual immorality. That is where Matthew 19:9 can possibly be applied. Many also look too quickly to remarriage after a divorce when God might desire them to remain single. God sometimes calls a person to be single so that their attention is not divided (1 Corinthians 7:32-35). Remarriage after a divorce may be an option in some circumstances, but that does not mean it is the only option.

It is distressing that the divorce rate among professing Christians is nearly as high as that of the unbelieving world. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16) and that reconciliation and forgiveness should be the marks of a believer’s life (Luke 11:4; Ephesians 4:32). However, God recognizes that divorces will occur, even among His children. A divorced and/or remarried believer should not feel any less loved by God, even if their divorce and/or remarriage is not covered under the possible exception clause of Matthew 19:9. God often uses even the sinful disobedience of Christians to accomplish great good.

 

[fatima1917]

I know of someone who is on her 3rd marriage. I believe that these divorces and marriages occured BEFORE she became a Christian. She is now an evangelical non-denominational Christian - and appears to be very close to Jesus. Is she living in mortal sin? I know that if it was me, being Catholic, I would be… Because she doesn’t believe she is, does that make it ok? Aren’t all of God’s laws for ALL PEOPLE? Don’t they apply to all?

I just find it very confusing… If we are living in mortal sin, I was under the impression that we were without the Grace of God that the sin separates us from God. Wouldn’t that mean that those outside the Catholic Church are also in this predicament if they are with mortal sin?

Suggestions are appreciated.

Happy Thanksgiving to all (it’s Thanksgiving in Canada today, not sure if it’s the same for the USA).

God bless.

The marriages occured before she became Christian. More information needs to be known about those marriages; such as were they before a justice of the peace, a minister, a rabbi, etc.? Did they include: “Until death do us part” or some such thing. Did she intend the marriage to be perminent or did she think: “O well if it doesn’t work out we will just get a divorce.” Was there a prior impediment to the other marriages(i.e. was she to young to get married). Such things as these are why you need Christ’s church to make a difinitive judgement on her other marriages before her present marriage can be declared valid or invalid. Otherwise we are all just whistling in the dark and to state that she is living in grevious sin is not up to any of us to judge. It is also rash and imprudent to do so. It is left to the church united to the Vicar of Christ to make this judgement.

 

[Beno]

Hi,
I found this article–I thought may interest you guys:shrug: or not

I know that there are differences in the interpretation of some of the scriptures regarding divorce and remarriage. I’ll hold to the Catholic positions but still it was worth it to read that article. I think it is beneficial to see how others come to their points of view, whether or not we subscribe to the same points of view. Thanks.

 

[thomasf]

I just wanted to point out that no where in the original post did tigerlillies judge this person she is asking about. She simply asks a question about the state of sin based on these former marriage. It’s not being judgemental to ask that. I have often wondered about stuff like that, protestants and non-christians that committ mortal sins and don’t have the advantage of confession or the church to address that sin. I don’t think it’s being judgemental to wonder this or ask about these kinds of things.

I think the question wasn’t asked with malace, nor was she accussing anyone. It’s a fair question and I don’t understand why people have reacted so poorly about it.

I have a baptist friend who has been married 3 times and divorced twice. I asked her about how she can do that in her religion, and pointed out the verses where Jesus speaks about divorce and adultry. She claims that it doesn’t apply to her because her divorces were for ‘good biblical reasons’. She is a christian, baptised, etc. I wonder how these things will affect her in the next life, and I wonder how a protestant religion that claims to be bible based can ignore such clear biblical teachings from Jesus.

 

[Steve40]

She is now an evangelical non-denominational Christian - and appears to be very close to Jesus. Is she living in mortal sin?

Yes, “Outside the Church There is No Salvation” CCC 846.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…I have often wondered about stuff like that, protestants and non-christians that committ mortal sins and don’t have the advantage of confession or the church to address that sin. …

Jesus explained one parable he told in Luke 13 with “to whom much is given, much will be required.” Catholics have the sacraments and the teachings of the Church–in short God has given us very much. Catholics in particular and *all *Christians will be held to higher standards than non-Christians. We have the words of Christ and His grace to guide us. Non-Christians who have not yet heard the Gospel, (which includes what Jesus and the Bible have to say about marriage) haven’t been given much; God will likely judge them with greater mercy, especially if they later come to Christ.

Some Christians think a certain word of Christ in Matt 19:9 gives them justification for remarriage following divorce. Mark 10: 2-12 records similar words but unlike Matthew’s gospel, but St. Mark recorded no “exemption.” Some protestant pastors dance around the issue of divorce and remarriage, and I fear they may place the souls entrusted to them at grave risk. (The pastors also assume some accountability for those sins before God.The Bible warns to be careful being a teacher for teachers will be held to higher standards.)

As the article ALLFORHIM posted said, “The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God hates divorce.” Yes! The article also goes onto say God can use “even the sinful disobedience of Christians to accomplish great good.” St. Paul does remind us that “where sin abides, grace abides all the more”, but St. Paul also reminds us, “What then shall we say? Shall we persist in sin that grace may abound? Of course not!” (Romans 6:1) Protestant Christians should be careful that they do not so quickly disregard the seriousness of divorce and remarriage.

Remarriage following divorce remains very serious. For non-Christians, such behavior does not cut them off from the grace of God as they have not yet recieved baptismal grace in the first place. For Christians, it might cut them off from grace as they are not ignorant of Christ’s teachings, yet the bad counsel recieved from their Protestant pastors may lessen the person’s culpability. Catholics who remarry following divorce should go to confession and seek the counsel of a good priest. For Catholics, since God has given us much, we can expect God to hold us to very high standards.

 

[AgnosTheist]

So, as you can see, it’s easy enough for a Protestant to be indoctrinated by poor translations of Scripture, especially when they’re told from an early age that Catholic translations are unreliable.

so then, how do understand what it says on the catholic bible? what is it about? what does it mean by ‘put away’?

 

[AgnosTheist]

I know of someone who is on her 3rd marriage. I believe that these divorces and marriages occured BEFORE she became a Christian. She is now an evangelical non-denominational Christian - and appears to be very close to Jesus. Is she living in mortal sin? I know that if it was me, being Catholic, I would be… Because she doesn’t believe she is, does that make it ok? Aren’t all of God’s laws for ALL PEOPLE? Don’t they apply to all?

what do you suggest for her to do?

 

[wcknight]

Jesus tells us that those who break their marriage vows do so at their own peril.

Yet, it is not for us to judge anyone elses faults or sins. That is between them and God. We all have to rely on the mercy of God, and rather than facing judgement from the Almighty, should we simply not judge anyone.

We have not walked in their shoes. Marriage is tough and anyone who thinks it is all a bed of roses will be in for a big shock.

 

[Morgana]

Aren’t all of God’s laws for ALL PEOPLE? Don’t they apply to all?

Because this appears in the Non-Catholic thread, I want to address this particular question. The answer is, no, your God’s laws are not for ALL PEOPLE. If you are not under the authority of Allah’s laws or Brahman’s laws, or the holy writ of other people’s religions, then other people are not under yours.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Jesus tells us that those who break their marriage vows do so at their own peril.

indeed. a broken marriage can be a hell in itself.

Yet, it is not for us to judge anyone elses faults or sins. That is between them and God.

Amen, brother!

 

[thomasf]

Jesus explained one parable he told in Luke 13 with “to whom much is given, much will be required.” Catholics have the sacraments and the teachings of the Church–in short God has given us very much. Catholics in particular and *all *Christians will be held to higher standards than non-Christians. We have the words of Christ and His grace to guide us. Non-Christians who have not yet heard the Gospel, (which includes what Jesus and the Bible have to say about marriage) haven’t been given much; God will likely judge them with greater mercy, especially if they later come to Christ.

So are you saying that non-christians will be judged less harshly because they didn’t know or understand the concept of sin? Or non-catholic christians because they didn’t fully understand? Is a sin less of a sin if you don’t know it’s a sin? Really? Is murder, or abortion, rape, etc mitigated because of lack of knowledge that it’s wrong?

Some how that doesn’t sit with me.

 

[jmcrae]

So are you saying that non-christians will be judged less harshly because they didn’t know or understand the concept of sin? Or non-catholic christians because they didn’t fully understand? Is a sin less of a sin if you don’t know it’s a sin? Really? Is murder, or abortion, rape, etc mitigated because of lack of knowledge that it’s wrong?

Some how that doesn’t sit with me.

There will still be nasty consequences. Just not as bad as if they had known what they were doing. They will experience a less painful Hell, or else they will spend a really long time in Purgatory before being admitted into Heaven.

But those who know what is right, and do it, will go directly to Heaven, and will not experience any pain at all.

 

[gardenswithkids]

So are you saying that non-christians will be judged less harshly because they didn’t know or understand the concept of sin?

Non-Christians haven’t recieved all the graces that God gave Christians. (I am not discussing former Christians who rejected their faith, but those who never had faith in the first place.) Unbaptized non-Christians have not recieved baptismal grace. Their marriages are not Sacramental marriages–and therefore don’t have the benefit of Sacramental graces in their marriages. They don’t have to account to God for what they did with Sacramental graces God gave them because they haven’t yet recieved any Sacramental graces. I’m not saying non-Christians get a free pass on sin–they don’t. But, in the event of a conversion to Christ, both original sin and all their past sins are wiped clean upon their baptism.

Or non-catholic christians because they didn’t fully understand?

That’s a bit harder to say because some of them may fully understand and still reject it. God will judge based on what they did with the knowledge and graces He gave them. Protestants do not have all the Sacramental graces that are available to Catholics, nor do they have the clear teachings of the Church regarding marriage and other moral issues. Is that because they don’t understand or because they reject them? I don’t know-that’s God’s to judge. He knows their hearts and He’ll judge what’s in their hearts.

Is a sin less of a sin if you don’t know it’s a sin?

“Less of a sin”, no. Mortal sin verses venial sin perhaps. A sin commited in full knowledge is a greater offense to God. A sinner who knew Jesus but rejected Him commits a graver offense than someone who never knew Him. Both may commit the same action, but one’s sin is worse if they fell from grace. Remember, we humans are born into a fallen condition. Those who haven’t been lifted up by grace don’t have as far to fall. The higher God lifts us up in grace, the farther we can fall if we fall into sin.

Really? Is murder, or abortion, rape, etc mitigated because of lack of knowledge that it’s wrong?

This thread discusses remarriage following divorce–not murder, abortion or rape. Tragically, divorce is quite common in American culture, and many consider remarriage following divorce normal. Even in Jesus’ time, people asked Him questions about divorce because it wasn’t clear to them.

 

[SerenaHC]

I’m a convert to RCC. My first marriage was to a Jehovah’s Witness. When I married my current husband, we were married in the Lutheran Church.

I became Catholic two years before my husband converted. When I converted, I talked to a canon lawyer who said that, because my previous marriage was not a christian marriage and neither of us had a valid baptism, it was not considered a sacramental marriage. Thus, I did not need an annullment. My marriage to my Lutheran husband, however, was in a Lutheran church and we’d both been validly baptized as christians. So, we did not have to have our marriage concelebrated in the RCC when my husband finally converted.

For many people like me, we weren’t raised with the concept of a sacramental life. I’d never heard of a sacrament. For me, marriage was viewed as an economic partnership and the reason for the marriage license, etc., was to provide me with legal protections if the marriage went sour. I don’t think people raised in a strong christian household realize that, for many people, marriage is a secular thing. They don’t realize the religious meaning behind it. It is more a civil union than a true marriage.

I am convinced that if people understand the sacramental nature of marriage, they would think long and hard before divorcing because they wouldn’t want to hurt God. But, for someone like I was, raised Jehovah’s Witness, which is very legalistic and doesn’t have sacraments or teach the concept of grace, religion is simply a set of rules you’re supposed to obey. If you break the rules, you take a punishment. There is no real involvement of the heart and soul, particularly since JWs don’t believe in a soul, as many secular people do not believe in a soul.

The RCC is a very rich church that offers people a lot and expects a lot of people. Although people outside of the church don’t have as much asked of them, they don’t get as much out of their religion, either. Fortunately, God knows and understands all of this. I thank God for drawing me into the Catholic faith.