Marrying a protestant divorcee single parent (!)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Paramedicman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Paramedicman

Guest
I’m like 50% sure I’ll be chased out of here for not exactly being a great catholic, but I’d love to be proven wrong.

So, I’m a early thirties lapsed or ‘cultural’ Catholic as it were. Meaning I haven’t been attending mass for a few years, and while I consider myself a believer my life as a career soldier turned paramedic/aid worker in various disaster and war zones hasn’t been conducive to a religious life. Make of that what you will.
Anyway, for the last year and a half I’ve been back in the old country working a desk job while I recover from a bout of illness and during that time I’ve started to date a divorced protestant single mom fellow healthcare worker about my age. I know right? Triple whammy right there. Its 2018, that’s how it goes I guess.

Anyway, its been getting serious with this amazing lady, and we are talking marriage and about finally living together -I stay at her place often, and have a great relationship with her kids, but we want to make it permanent. We’re devoted to each other, and me and the kids think of ourselves as family more than them and their ‘real’ dad.
She’s not particularly religious -agnostic more than unreligious I’d say- , but as her first marriage was a ‘fine, we’ll go to the courthouse I guess since I’m pregnant’ kinda deal, she wants to do it properly this time, and get married in a church. She’s offered to do it in a Catholic Church, but I realised that I don’t even know what the process would be like -I’ve never thought about marriage before really.

Some cursory googling tells me she would need to have her marriage annulled probably, which seems like a long shot to me, and that a Catholic priest wouldn’t marry us unless she becomes a catholic -which seems odd to me, I feel sure I’ve attended mixed weddings in Catholic Churches when I was younger.
So, what’s the process like for us if we go forward with this?

At the end of the day, we’re willing to go to some lengths to be married in a Catholic Church, but we’re not willing to put up with anything either. Honestly it would be more to make my much more devout parents and older family happy than for me. If we feel the process is too needlessly drawn out, or that we are not treated with respect (I’ve had to leave behind catholic friends who would tell my fiancé that she was ‘going to hell for being an adulteress’ to her face) by the church, we’ll probably just get married in a protestant church, and be none the worse for it. To us its all about living well, doing good works and being happy.
She’s willing to consider ‘converting’ over time after marriage and raising any children as catholics, and honestly prefers the catholic way of doing things overall, but the openly hostile reception our relationship gets from a certain subset of devout churchgoers is turning her and me both off the whole church.

Again, what are the rules, what can we do, and how does this work going forward?
 
Paramedicman said:
she would need to have her marriage annulled probably, which seems like a long shot to me
Click to expand...
Eh… Especially in America, there can be some pretty rubber-stamp declarations of nullity.
Paramedicman said:
Catholic priest wouldn’t marry us unless she becomes a catholic
Click to expand...
That’s false. I’m the product of a Catholic and a Methodist. (granted, my mother later converted). You can marry a Christian or even a nonChristian
Paramedicman said:
Again, what are the rules, what can we do, and how does this work going forward?
Click to expand...
Go to the parish you’d be getting married in, and have a sit-down with Father. Regardless of anything anyone else here says, (other than a canon lawyer and some priests who occasionally pop in) that’s the surest way to a definite answer.
 
Well, first of all welcome to CAF! 😃

Regarding getting married in a Catholic Church…

Yes, your beloved would need to get an annulment. Unless she was baptized in a Catholic Church as an infant, this process will take a long time. If she was baptized in a Catholic Church as an infant, the process will be much, much shorter.

The fact that she’s not Catholic is not an issue. There are “mixed” marriages all the time, and different permissions need to be granted for different cases. I haven’t ever seen those permissions denied.

The actual process of getting married in the Catholic Church requires marriage prep stuff done through the parish or diocese, depending on where you live. This will include training on Natural Family Planning (NFP), because the Catholic Church does not allow the use of artificial birth control.

That’s the main process. I’m not really sure how priests handle things when couples are only wanting to get married in the Church to please others, rather than because of their own personal beliefs.

I’ll keep you and your beloved in my prayers as you make your decisions.

God bless you both!
 
Last edited:
Please do not give out timelines, you really don’t know what they are where the OP lives.

In my diocese, annulment cases are usually less than six months. Also marriage prep is not a year, it is generally six months but can vary based on the couple.

The OP should talk to the local pastor.
 
I don’t really recommend marrying in the Catholic Church to please others.

Ask for the sacrament of marriage because you want it, or don’t if you are fine marrying elsewhere. If you don’t really intend to practice the faith after the wedding, the pastor may want to discuss the situation.

In general, your experience could vary greatly depending on the pastoral skills of the priest or deacon you work with. Yes there is marriage prep, and yes she would have to be declared free to marry— which may involve a decree of nullity. She is under no obligation to become a Catholic.

Take it one step at a time, starting with a conversation with the pastor. Everything doesn’t have to be solved at once.
 
The most basic thing is to talk with your pastor to get things started. At the very least she will need to be free to marry which, at the moment, she is not.

The impression I get from your OP is that you have a half-hearted relationship with the Church. I don’t think that’s going to work well in this situation. If your girlfriend needs a declaration of nullity, it will take some time and effort. I’m sure there will be times of frustration in dealing with things. Similarly, the Church has requirements related to marriage preparation and I’m sure there will sometimes be frustrations related to that as well.

For someone who believes in the sacrament of matrimony and the Catholic view of marriage, it’s absolutely worth any annoyances that may pop up. But if you’re doing it for other reasons, it may not be worth the effort.

On the other hand, maybe you really care about having a Catholic marriage. If that’s the case, you need to own it and work toward achieving it.
 
Thanks guys, constructive positive answers that also went along with what I figured myself -the best kind!

I’d love if anyone else chimes in with more or different points of view obviously, but as is we’ll go see the Father at the closest parish tomorrow (I had already made an appointment) and see what he says.

I also have to apologise for maybe coming off a bit hostile in my opening -though no one has even acknowledged it yet which I thought was very high road of you- but having met a lot of vitriolic and hurtful words from supposedly good christians for her daring to be in a comitted relationship years after leaving her husband (always directed at her, never at me) I might have been a bit angry.

Again, if anyone else has anything else to chime in with or opinions on our situation I’d love to hear them!
 
Just a quick comment – - there are so many complexities in annulment cases, that it really is best to just talk with a priest. For instance, if by some chance, her ex was Catholic, or was previously married, then her marriage might not be seen as “valid”, in which case things might just be speeded up a lot. It sounds like you were baptized Catholic? I think it’s nice that you want to at least investigate getting married in the Church, to please your family.
When my husband got married, we were not religious. We got married at the courthouse, just for simplicity, and because we couldn’t deal with kooky relatives messing with us for months before the wedding. My husband was raised Catholic, but seemingly “allergic” to going to Mass. I was raised culturally Lutheran, but basically agnostic as a young adult. Fast forward twenty-some years - - 3 kids later, my husband has returned to the Church, is now a 4th degree Knight of Columbus (yes - - the ones who dress up in the chapeau, cloak, etc). I joined the Church ten years ago, and our kids are in Catholic school, and the one in college is a strong Catholic.
So you never know where this might end up! 😆
Best wishes to you, and God bless you and your lovely potential blended family.
 
Paramedicman said:
openly hostile reception our relationship gets from a certain subset of devout churchgoers is turning her and me both off the whole church
Click to expand...
No Catholic, nomatter how bad or nasty, should turn you away from Christ’s church, if they have, the devil has won and you’ll be the less blessed because of it.
 
Is your fiancée baptized? If she and/or her ex husband weren’t baptized there may be no need of an official annulment, it may be a Pauline Privelige situation where the union is simply dissolved and was never considered a marriage, and that would be fast. That’s how my union with my ex husband was treated before my conversion, as neither of us were baptized at the time.
 
I am baptised, yes, as I grew up in the church and was fairly observant until I joined the military in my early twenties and it fell by the wayside somewhat. She’s actually baptised in the Norwegian Lutheran state church as her family immigrated here (USA) when she was a child from Norway. No idea if thats what you mean, but I suspect you were asking if she’s baptised as a catholic which no, neither she nor her ex were.
 
Last edited:
In the Church, Baptised is Baptised so long as they use the Trinitarian form of Baptism. I can’t speak for right or wrong in your regard but I had a similar situation with one of the gals I was dating. The priest I discussed the matter with made it clear that if she has been divorced an annulment via the Church would be necessary before proceeding with marriage.

Please keep in mind that if you are engaging in fornication with this woman you will not be able to receive communion until you’re either married to the woman or until the relationship ceases and that is only after you have confessed.

It’s not the best answer but just try to be flexible with what the Church asks and they will help you the best they can. Peace, Brother.
 
Last edited:
If they got married because she was pregnant, this could be grounds for nullity as her freedom of choice was compromised. It is something to discuss with the priest.
 
There are plenty of people out there today that consider themselves more Catholic than the Pope, and for some reason, they think they have some divine mandate to make sure everyone else knows it and their deputization to be the judge and jury of others’ cases. I’m sorry you encounter these people. A few of them actually mean well - they’re trying what they think is a “tough love” approach - but most just forgot that they’re in church because we’re all sinners in need of forgiveness, it just takes different forms with different folks.

I think you want a relationship with the Church more than you’ve let on here, or you wouldn’t have bothered posting. Good for you - it’s an excellent way to get your new family started. Who cares if the road isn’t smooth or there’s some messiness to it? That’s life. Be patient, especially with those who seem to lack patience and kindness, and do the best you can for your new family. Above all, pray on it, together if you can…and you’ll be in my prayers as well.
 
She should be able to get an annulment, but it will probably take time. There is not a rule that says that she has to convert to marry you. Your biggest issue is going to be your negative attitude toward the Church. It’s silly to marry in the Church just because it will please your parents if you don’t believe what the Church teaches about marriage. I imagine a priest will point that out. If you are really interested in a Church wedding, it’s probably worth your time to speak to the priest and learn about what the Church teaches about marriage. THey’ll probably ask you to consider how you will deal with lots of different issues such as disagreements, finances, inlaws, etc. This could be especially important since your fiance has children at home. They may give you a very basic training in NFP. You may end up decided that you love the Church’s teachings on marriage and it’s Catholic wedding all the way for you. You never know until you check it out.
 
Paramedicman said:
Some cursory googling tells me she would need to have her marriage annulled probably, which seems like a long shot to me,
Click to expand...
The annulment could be a breeze. If her ex is deceased, it wouldn’t be necessary. If the ex was previously married and not annulled, if she or her ex was baptized Catholic and the marriage wasn’t approved by the church, it wasn’t a valid marriage and could be decided pretty quickly.

Of course, there is a possibility of a more formal annulment process being needed, but most are approved nowadays.
 
JulianN said:
Actually, in my experience, that would be very slow, comparatively.
Click to expand...
Mine was pretty much instant. They just didn’t record a marriage since ex was not Christian at all and neither of us were baptized at the time.
 
Pauline Privilege

This process may be applicable to a marriage involving two unbaptized people. It is based on the writings of St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:12-15. The marriage may be set aside in favor of the faith for the person who receives Catholic baptism and wishes to marry in the Church. Thus, this privilege may not be granted until the person receives the sacrament of baptism and enters marriage.

X, an unbaptized person, marries Y, also an unbaptized person.
The non-baptism of both X and Y can be proven.
The marriage ends in civil divorce.
X, desiring a Catholic marriage, must be baptized as a Catholic.
The privilege takes place at the time of the new marriage.

It will be necessary to obtain the names and addresses of the former spouse and two witnesses who can answer questions regarding the non-baptism of each party. The tribunal can determine if the requirements to complete this process are present.

…I see here that both parties have to have not been baptized. They just need to talk to 2 people to verify no baptism. For me, I had been baptized years after the divorce so I didn’t need to be baptized catholic to enter into marriage (also my husband converted with me and we did a convalidation after our conversion). If his fiancée is not baptized then the question would be, would they baptized her before she goes through RCIA and converts, if she has an intention to convert. If not then what they would probably do is a regular annulment but if she isn’t baptized and had a courthouse wedding that would likely go quickly.
 
It would be a big violation of the forum rules, and simply rude, to run someone off for imperfection. Forums would be empty if only perfect folks could post!
Paramedicman said:
Some cursory googling tells me she would need to have her marriage annulled probably,
Click to expand...
She needs to approach the Tribunal (the Diocese where she now lives or the Diocese where she was married OR the Diocese where her legal ex now resides) and request that Tribunal review her marriage. They may find it null, they may find it valid.

This website will help clear some of the misunderstandings out there:

http://catholicsdivorce.com/
Paramedicman said:
that a Catholic priest wouldn’t marry us unless she becomes a catholic
Click to expand...
Mixed marriage required preparation and permission from the Bishop. She does not need to convert, first step is to step back and slow things down.

Have one of the Dioceses who has authority review her marriage.

If she is free to marry, then, approach your pastor (the pastor of the parish where you live) about marriage prep.

Another useful site (From the US Bishops) http://www.foryourmarriage.org/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top