Mary and Labor Pains

[Vico]

If Christ could go through locked doors without physically breaking a hole in the door, then I don’t see why He could not pass from the Holy Virgin’s womb to the outside without breaking anything.

See post # 46, St. Thomas Aquinas teaching from the Summa Theologiae that Christ did not use the powers of his glorified body before His Passion. Therefore we see two different opinions on the issue.

it has been said above (III:13:3 ad 1; III:16:1 ad 2) that before His Passion Christ “allowed His flesh to do and to suffer what was proper to it”

 

[ToeInTheWater]

See post # 46, St. Thomas Aquinas teaching from the Summa Theologiae that Christ did not use the powers of his glorified body before His Passion. Therefore we see two different opinions on the issue.

it has been said above (III:13:3 ad 1; III:16:1 ad 2) that before His Passion Christ “allowed His flesh to do and to suffer what was proper to it”

Well, Christ may not have, but certainly God the Father could have granted Mary a miracle, and I have no issue with that.

I think one issue non-Catholics can have with this kind of discussion, is that they already tend to see the attribution of many powers, and many special exceptions to normal human sufferings, as turning Mary into something beyond a mere created human being, but makes her more into a demi-goddess type. I’m actually surprised that no Catholic has, so far, claimed Mary didn’t excrete waste like a normal human being. But maybe there is some Saint quote out there that she was too holy to do that, too.

It’s not just about being free of Original Sin. John the Baptist was supposed born without Original Sin, because he was cleansed of Original Sin in the womb when he “leapt for joy” when he encountered the Child Jesus (or should I say “Fetus Jesus” to appease pro-choicers? ) , but no one attributes any special powers to him. I assume he’s a Saint, too, but few Catholics seem to pay much attention to him.

However, I find the discussions of Mary’s powers during her Heavenly existence to be less jarring. I have no issue with “How can Mary hear all the millions of prayers addressed to her” as I can explain that with, either God granted her the powers, or she has a Glorified body that has powers her earthly one didn’t have.

 

[GEddie]

This gets me thinking. How exactly, if the Fall hadn’t happened, would women give birth without pain? Different anatomy? Their body would produce painkillers? Something miraculous? Babies were born smaller?
I fail to see how this could conceivably not be painful.

How would human life have been free of death? One is no more mysterious than the other.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Vico]

Well, Christ may not have, but certainly God the Father could have granted Mary a miracle, and I have no issue with that.

I think one issue non-Catholics can have with this kind of discussion, is that they already tend to see the attribution of many powers, and many special exceptions to normal human sufferings, as turning Mary into something beyond a mere created human being, but makes her more into a demi-goddess type. I’m actually surprised that no Catholic has, so far, claimed Mary didn’t excrete waste like a normal human being. But maybe there is some Saint quote out there that she was too holy to do that, too.

It’s not just about being free of Original Sin. John the Baptist was supposed born without Original Sin, because he was cleansed of Original Sin in the womb when he “leapt for joy” when he encountered the Child Jesus (or should I say “Fetus Jesus” to appease pro-choicers? ) , but no one attributes any special powers to him. I assume he’s a Saint, too, but few Catholics seem to pay much attention to him.

However, I find the discussions of Mary’s powers during her Heavenly existence to be less jarring. I have no issue with “How can Mary hear all the millions of prayers addressed to her” as I can explain that with, either God granted her the powers, or she has a Glorified body that has powers her earthly one didn’t have.

There is no Catholic dogma that St. John the Baptist was free from original sin. Receiving saving grace sometime after birth can occur. The feast of the Nativity of John the Baptist comes three months after the feast of the Annunciation, and both are solemnities. All Saints can be asked to offer prayers for us and The Queen of Heaven is the ideal person to ask. The Blessed Virgin Mary is called *channel *of all graces because the graces of our Lord came to the world through her son Jesus Christ.

Catholics would not teach that the Blessed Virgin Mary, with only a human nature, could be better than Jesus Christ her son. The Council of Chalcedon (451) proclaims Jesus Christ in his humanity; “like us in all things but sin”. Similarly, the Blessed Virgin Mary, is like us in need of salvation, although immaculately conceived (she shared beforehand in the salvation Christ would bring by his death):

Luke 1
46 And Mary said:

“My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
47 my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
48 For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness;
behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
49 The Mighty One has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
50 His mercy is from age to age
to those who fear him.
51 He has shown might with his arm,
dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
52 He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones
but lifted up the lowly.
53 The hungry he has filled with good things;
the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped Israel his servant,
remembering his mercy,
55 according to his promise to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”