Mary as Heavenly Mother

[Mikaele]

I’ve been talking with a friend that left the church and he is adamant that Mary is not our heavenly mother. How can I prove that she is using the Scriptures? he quote these verses:

“…Rev 22vs17 the Spirit and the Bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say “come!” who is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of water of life. In this vs we know who the spirit is and thats God the Father but lets find out who the bride is. Rev 21vs9 one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, i will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” (that is Jesus without a doubt yea) vs10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. Now lets turn to Rev 21vs1-2 at the end of vs 2 you can clearly see who her husband is (the Spirit is the Lamb and who is the Lamb) then lets turn to Galatian 4vs26 but the Jerusalem that is above (heaven) is free and she is our mother.”

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Show him that the wife of Solomon, the inheritor of David’s throne, was not the Queen mother – rather, Bathsheba --Solomon’s mother was the queen MOTHER.
Bathsheba was DEFINITELY not the WIFE of Solomon!

Just so, the wife of Jesus, son of David, is the Catholic Church his bride; whom he makes flesh of his own flesh without sexual union through opening his side on the cross – eg: with communion instead of sexual union.

However, that does not change the fact that Mary is the mother of Jesus – and therefore she has a place of honor at his right hand given to her by the father at the annunciation of the coming King in Luke chapter 2.

At the moment Jesus was dying on the cross in St. John’s gospel; he looked down at his mother and said to “the disciple he loved”; there is your mother and to his mother he said “there is your son.”

To those same disciples, he had told in the Garden of Gethsemanie that they would rule on 12 thrones in his coming kingdom. But he said to all of them – whomever sits at my right and left hand is not mine to give; but the father’s.
Just so, Bathsheba was given to Solomon as his mother By the father at the time of David; after killing the son of adultery which preceeded him. Solomon did not choose Bathsheba as his mother – she was given.

But if the Church is Christ’s bride – there is one way we KNOW Mary can be the mother of a disciple; and that is as a mother in law of the bride. The whole book of Revelation is about the wedding feast of the lamb – which implies marriage. But in Jewish law (and even in secular law today) it is forbidden to Mary one’s own mother. It is only logical that his earthly mother is not his bride in heaven in the same way, we, the church are.

Who then, is the queen, who sits at the right hand of the King enthroned in Gold – as the psalm says she will? There is one. (Psalm: 44)

Psalm 44:7 Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a sceptre of uprightness.
Psalm 44:8 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Psalm 44:9 Myrrh and stacte and cassia perfume thy garments, from the ivory houses: out of which
Psalm 44:10 The daughters of kings have delighted thee in thy glory. **The queen stood on thy right hand, in gilded clothing; surrounded with variety. **
Psalm 44:11 Hearken, O daughter, and see, and incline thy ear: and forget thy people and thy father’s house.
Psalm 44:12 And the king shall greatly desire thy beauty; for he is the Lord thy God, and him they shall adore.

If Mary is not the SINGULAR queen, and the mother in law, then, who is this singular woman that has already found the right hand of the eternal throne in psalm 44 – “forever and ever” – seeing that in lines 44:11 and onward, Jesus’ bride is foreshadowed as coming from another house? The daughters of Kings are called princesses and the sons are princes; But to be queen requires something more.

Someone is queen, ask your friend who this is if not Mary; It can’t be “Ishtar”! and there are many other names which would be offensive to have as queen. But “Miriam” the sister of Moses which became “Mary” is not a dishonored name; God didn’t choose a “Jezebel” to be his mother; and nowhere do we find an idol named Mary. If this isn’t enough, then there is some other reason based on trickery or feelings which is causing your friend to deny something he can’t really know much about. And apologetically speaking, those types of reasons aren’t removed by showing someone the truth and logic; but they are often removed by exposure in small doses to that which the person fears but in people that they will eventually come to realize don’t carry evil inside themselves.

Sometimes, as a child, I overcame fear of things under my bed – by crawling under the bed just before the lights got turned out. Soon, I became used to what my socks looked like as shadows and in the light, and I slept easier. Scriptural fears are also sometimes of the same kind of fear – things that need to be read in different ways until one can become familiar with the difference between appearances and reality.

Peace to you.

 

[panevino]

Isaac is the son of the freewoman an OT type of Christ.
The freewomans role in the OT?

Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah [shall] her name [be].16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be [a mother] of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Gal 4: 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold the son.

 

[DJK100]

I’ve been talking with a friend that left the church and he is adamant that Mary is not our heavenly mother. How can I prove that she is using the Scriptures? he quote these verses:

“…Rev 22vs17 the Spirit and the Bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say “come!” who is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of water of life. In this vs we know who the spirit is and thats God the Father but lets find out who the bride is. Rev 21vs9 one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, i will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” (that is Jesus without a doubt yea) vs10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. Now lets turn to Rev 21vs1-2 at the end of vs 2 you can clearly see who her husband is (the Spirit is the Lamb and who is the Lamb) then lets turn to Galatian 4vs26 but the Jerusalem that is above (heaven) is free and she is our mother.”

First of all read the entire chapters he is quoting you. YOu will see that these quotes he uses to proove his point are taken way out of context and don’t actually match up. He is piecing things together but ignoring context.

Please read Revelation 12. Pay attention to vs 17. To sum up, there is a women who gave birth to a son whom the dragon tries to pesecute. Obviously, this woman is Mary and her son is Jesus. Then look at vs 17 which says, “And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” So what is this saying, “remant of her seed,” obviously means offspring which is also symbolic of the Church (those that keep the commandments of Jesus). But since the Church (via Jesus) is the offspring of Mary (as Mary gave birth to Jesus so without Mary there is no Church), we as the Church are her children (offspring) and therfore she is our mother. This is pretty clear without having to verse hop like your friend.

Second, please read these

catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9805fea3.asp

"Christ, I pointed out, is our brother. Galatians 4:4-5 and Romans 8:15, 23 deal with our adoption by God through baptism. If we’re children of God, and if Jesus is the Son of God, then Jesus must be our brother. “In fact,” I pointed out, “Hebrews 2:11, 17 refer to Jesus as our ‘brother.’” That convinced them, as I could hear by the chorus of “Oooh!”

“So if Jesus is our brother,” I asked everyone in general, “then who’s the rest of our family?” All four of the girls responded immediately, “God is our Father,” and then a perplexed silence fell upon the room. One of the girls looked up at me and said, “And Mary is our mother.” All of the girls nodded their heads. So did the Baptist teacher. “Yes!” I thought to God and to myself, as I mentally prepared for the final part of the lesson."

Taken from the above link.

catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812fea2.asp

Also, remember what Jesus said to his beloved disciple at the foot of the Cross. “Women behold your son, and son behold your mother.”

Hope this helps.

 

[PJM]

=Mikaele;8357291]I’ve been talking with a friend that left the church and he is adamant that Mary is not our heavenly mother. How can I prove that she is using the Scriptures? he quote these verses:

“…Rev 22vs17 the Spirit and the Bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say “come!” who is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of water of life. In this vs we know who the spirit is and thats God the Father but lets find out who the bride is. Rev 21vs9 one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, i will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” (that is Jesus without a doubt yea) vs10 .”

Only God can CONVERT one who is adament about not being saved! That said, Rev. is not a literal account of ANYTHING. It is written in “code” for the then undersground; greatly persecuated church. The verses he referenced refer to BOTH the bride as The CC and as Mary.[Bride of God the Father]

Their is biblical evidence to PROVE your case; BUT that does not mean that “I KNOW more and I KNOW better”] will accept it Here are the “proofs”

1. Lk. 1; 26-35 verse 35 quaoted: "And the angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.” = Jesus is God, Mary is the Mother of Jesus so Mary is defacto the Mother of God.
2. John 19:25-27 "So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag’dalene. When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “***Woman, behold, your son!” ***Then he said to the Disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home

Notice the language used by Christ. “mother” becomes “women” a reference to ALL. The deciple [John] represents humanity… all of us for ALL time!

1. Just as Christ is the “new Adam” so too is Mary the “new Eve.”… Gen.3: 13-15 "Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent beguiled me, and I ate.” The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.
   I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”

Just as BOTH Adam and Eve introduced sin into the world; salvation was to be through Christ with [the unnecessary except for God’s Will] cooperation and HELP from His Mother. the SAME Mother that Jesus choose to SHARE with humanity.In order to do this She MUST be in heaven with Jesus.

Mary is STILL OUR Mother whom is now in heaven; that She is the Queen of Both heaven and earth.

1. The very key’s to the kingdom of heaven [Mt. 16:19] are given ONLY to Peter and the RCC. Thus all salvation [and conditions there-of] MUST and do flow through the SEE of Peter.

5. The RCC cannot error; absolutely impossible! when teaching on ALL matters relating to Faith beliefs and morals.

5.This is verifed by the following verese: Jn.14:16; Jn.17:18-19 and Jn.20: 21-22. "And I will pray the Father, and **he will give you another Counselor,[The HS] to be with you for ever, ** … “[18] As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. *And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.” *

The RCC is the ONLY Church to have always with Her both the HS and Christ Himself! As warranty of Her teaching ONLY the TRUTH! … "Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit”…

At the 1st. Pentecost Jesus passes on to His CC HIS OWN Powers and authority!

So your friend can choose [as we all are able to do] belief or unbelief; heaven or hell. It is the choice that we all have to make.

You may wish to print this for him?

God Bless and keep praying for this person.

Pat

 

[TimothyH]

Revelation 12 speaks of a woman in heaven and her son. A cursory reading of the first few verses of Revelation 12 and almost anyone would agree that the son who is “destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod” and is “caught up to God and his throne” is Jesus. The woman then must be Mary.

Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus. (Revelation 12:17)

If you keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus, you are Mary’s “offpsring.” It really can’t be much clearer. If the person doesn’t accept this, then there is probably no way to convince him.

-Tim-