Mary Co-Redeemer

[jpink1019]

Well - JESUS is never called “a co-Redeemer”. So if you ask in THAT sense, then no.

For some reason Jesus willed that certain people share in His work of salvation.

Only Mary is called a co-redemptrix.

BUT even in the sense of “deputies” the saints are not called co-redeemers. Though in a sense they could be, it seems.

Doesn’t say if that judging will be as much as if those judged tribes (and the individuals in them?) will be allowed into heaven or not (salvation) – but Christ shares his powers AGAIN it seems.

As the Biblical Prophet Simeon prophesies about Jesus and salvation - he mentions and links Mary into the same prophecy

The Holy Spirit inspired prophet links Mary with the prophecy about her son (though not equating her being co-pierced as being the same thing or equal to Christ’s. Interestingly he mentions a sword piercing Mary “also” in the KJV when it was not mentioned about Jesus previously. (An interesting side note for those who must have scripture for every aspect of what they believe).

In another sense too, where the Bible calls Eve " … the mother of all living".

Mary is called " … blessed among women" (even more so than Eve).

As Eve’s “no” to God (disobedience) cost mankind paradise.

Mary’s “yes” “Be it done unto me according to your word” – began the reparation that was the coming of the “New Adam” (Jesus).

Side note: Mary’s answer to God the Father at the BEGINNING of the Messiah’s coming to earth to save mankind

– is very similar to her Son’s " …

… on the night he began His final journey to the cross and accomplishing His mission …

Co-redemptrix is also less of a title the Church has conferred on Mary. It is rather more of the recognition of something Jesus did. He chose to fill ONE non-divine person with grace and be born of her - as part of His plan.

The **honor **the Church does “give” HER is not equal to the worship it gives to God. And HIGH as the honor is that it gives Mary – it is nothing in comparison to the honor given to her by the Lord Himself. The Church is happy to follow Jesus in honoring her - as it should follow Him in all things.

The Church is not without the power of the keys to determine things. But it did not invent powers for Mary nor a key role in salvation history she did not already have.

Like others that are branches of “the vine” (Jesus) Mary has powers still.

Certainly one of the “whoever” is Mary herself - OF whom the Holy Spirit Filled Elizabeth attests:

In her humble holiness Mary calls herself a lowly handmaiden of the Lord. He has lifted her up. And the handmaiden gladly shares in His work.

She shares in His work…??

 

[aemcpa]

… so in summary Mary is a co-redemptrix because…?

Do you realize that you just said God gives her honor and therefore we should too?

To God be all the Glory and Honor?

Mary is a co-redemptrix because?

Because Mary was the only person whose direct cooperation was necessary for the work of salvation to be accomplished by Christ. Without Mary’s consent, God the Son could not have been incarnate. That is the primary reason that she merits the title of Co-Redemptrix.

 

[pablope]

… so in summary Mary is a co-redemptrix because…?

Do you realize that you just said God gives her honor and therefore we should too?

 

[jpink1019]

There are different kinds of honor given…we give love to Mary for her love for the Bride of Christ…for her prayers for all sinners to make it to heaven…

 

[pablope]

pablope;10735032:

It becomes confusing when you begin delegating honor to anyone other than God.

What is your description and understanding of “Honor”?

How should God be honored? How should Mary be honored? What kind of honor do you think is confusing?

One of the ten commandments says to honor our fathers and mothers. So when we honor our fathers and mothers, are we delegating the honor we give to God?

Following your logic, then we should violate the commandment and not honor our fathers and mothers…

 

[snarflemike]

pablope;10735032:

It becomes confusing when you begin delegating honor to anyone other than God.

The apostles didn’t think so. For example:

“Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.”
– 1 Pet 2:17

And then there’s this:
“…if any one serves me, the Father will honor him.”
– John 12:26

 

[bzkoss236]

My own understanding is this.

Christ is our Redeemer. There has been no other figure, entity or persons who are responsible for the salvation that we find on the cross through christ jesus.

co-redeemer = necessity to involve another person in order that we might be saved.
Through Mary we reach Jesus to achieve our salvation.
This is what i am getting at.

I’ll explain it like this.

Christ is the sole means by which ultimate redemption comes. Those who lead/bring/allow us to know Christ hold a share in our redemption, for without them we would have not known Christ, and then we could not be redeemed. Mary holds a particularly larger role than any other man or woman, because without her, Christ would have not entered the world, and no one would have come to know Christ, and no one could be redeemed by Christ.

 

[John_Cocktosen]

I’ll explain it like this.

Christ is the sole means by which ultimate redemption comes. Those who lead/bring/allow us to know Christ hold a share in our redemption, for without them we would have not known Christ, and then we could not be redeemed. Mary holds a particularly larger role than any other man or woman, because without her, Christ would have not entered the world, and no one would have come to know Christ, and no one could be redeemed by Christ.

So does this also mean that all the old testament patriarchs in the lineage of Jesus are also “co-redeemers” since they all had to say yes to God when called?

On a more personal level, is my mother a co-redeemer with Christ since she introduced me to Christianity?

The RCIA class I went to teaching about the Virgin Mary was the most contentious and divisive out of all the classes. To me all this extreme, intense honoring of the Virgin Mary actually detracts from Jesus, not amplifies Him. If the Virgin Mary was so crucial to salvation why is she only mentioned once after the gospels? I think for a lot of non-Catholics who are interested in the church, it is a turn-off because they perceive that Catholics seem to think Mary to be the 4th person of the Godhead. Then we have to go through the torturous explanations of the theology of Mary that developed over the last 2,000 years.

 

[bzkoss236]

So does this also mean that all the old testament patriarchs in the lineage of Jesus are also “co-redeemers” since they all had to say yes to God when called?

On a more personal level, is my mother a co-redeemer with Christ since she introduced me to Christianity?

The RCIA class I went to teaching about the Virgin Mary was the most contentious and divisive out of all the classes. To me all this extreme, intense honoring of the Virgin Mary actually detracts from Jesus, not amplifies Him. If the Virgin Mary was so crucial to salvation why is she only mentioned once after the gospels? I think for a lot of non-Catholics who are interested in the church, it is a turn-off because they perceive that Catholics seem to think Mary to be the 4th person of the Godhead. Then we have to go through the torturous explanations of the theology of Mary that developed over the last 2,000 years.

She is only a distraction if you give her the wrong kind of attention. If you are focused on her to become closer to Christ, then she will amplify him. It is all about the person’s attitude.

And yes, to an extent, the OT patriarchs could also be called co-redeemers, but not to the extent of Mary. Also, your mother is a co-redeemer of yours, but again, not to the extent of Mary.

 

[aemcpa]

And yes, to an extent, the OT patriarchs could also be called co-redeemers, but not to the extent of Mary. Also, your mother is a co-redeemer of yours, but again, not to the extent of Mary.

The universal call to evangelization means we are all responsible as part of the body of Christ to assist in the work of redemption by spreading the Gospel and leading people to a saving knowledge of Christ through the Church that He founded for that purpose.

 

[bzkoss236]

The universal call to evangelization means we are all responsible as part of the body of Christ to assist in the work of redemption by spreading the Gospel and leading people to a saving knowledge of Christ through the Church that He founded for that purpose.

Amen

 

[CaptFun]

Jesus (to the Pharisees) on the subject of** “honor”.**

Matthew 15:4

For God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and ‘Whoever curses father or mother shall die.’

As the Son of God, He was also God the Son.
As the Son of “Man” He was also Mary’s Son.

As the Son of Man He fulfilled the law by living a perfect life.

Keeping all 10 Commandments perfectly.
Not just 9 1/2* - and thereby being a “near miss” as the Messiah. Wherin the Jews would be right to still be waiting for the Messiah to come (the first time - which of course He HAS).

• 9 1/2 Commandments = Somehow NOT honoring His mother.

In His earthly life Jesus honored Mary (His will and plan!) by becoming man with her freewill co-operation. Putting Himself completely into her care (and Joseph’s) for a time. Being obedient unto them as a good son - even past the age where by Jewish law He had become a man (could sit with the elders in the Temple, etc.).

John 12:26

Whoever serves me must follow me, and where I am, there also will my servant be. The Father will honor whoever serves me.

MARY served Him. Possibly more than anyone. AND served Him. Called herself the “handmaid of the Lord.”

Shall we really speculate that God does NOT honor her? Doesn’t scripture (really an angel bearing the Father’s message) call her “full of grace” and “blessed among women?”

If she is the most blessed among women that would include: Eve, Sarah, Ruth, Esther, the Queens of Israel and Judah and any of the women of the New Testament.

St. John (who took her into his care after the Crucifixion) has a vision of a Woman crowned with stars, clothed with the sun and with the moon under her feet in Revelation 12.

Was this a FALSE vision? No. Other saints are depicted in heaven wearing crowns in the same book (honored). But not like this Woman. WHERE did she GET such splendor if it were not bestowed upon her by God … and He did not honor her?

Why does John the faithful apostle (and all the other New Testament evangelists as well) write NOT just solely about Jesus and the Trinity … but about … a lot of other things as well. Not “equal to Go” things. But if God inspires scripture … things that God wanted us to consider.

“Behold thy Mother …” was addressed to St. John at the foot of the cross.

But why include it in scripture if that applied JUST to Him? Why do the inspired writers of scripture keep including Mary (at ALL!) in these most significant events in human history (even if it is true that she was THERE).

The subject is Co-Redeemer. Co-Redemptrix is the term actually. A recognition that Mary was a God chosen part of the mystery of salvation. And as part of the Body of Christ she continues in the ongoing work of salvation today.

 

[LilyM]

As I recall, Pope Benedict was not in favor of a formal proclamation of that title. We can say what we want in terms of “co” meaning “with” or “co-operation,” but the term as used today implies an equality (as in “co-president” or “co-chairman”) that is theologically inaccurate, and would prove to be a source of confusion. Such confusion and misunderstanding does no honor to Our Lady.

St Paul calls all of us co-heirs with Christ and co-labourers with Him. He by no means implies equality in so doing, so we should never fear to use the co- !

What is His labour exactly, by the way? Redemption and salvation, surely. So then are we not all co-workers with Him in these things?

Paul is bold enough to say ‘I (Paul) become all things to all men so that by all means I (Paul) might save some.’ Surely Christ alone saves? Yes, but Paul is a co-worker in that task as well!

 

[BroomWagon]

Yes.

But “CO-” is not "equal to" Christ (as if Mary were divine or died on a cross for us).

"CO-" is meant in the sense of:

ALSO a CRITICAL PERSON in Christ’s (actual) plan and action of Salvation.

More like: “Starring Jesus Christ”. Co-starring “Mary of Nazareth”.

Or: Pilot: Jesus Christ (flies the plane). Co-pilot: Mary (does not fly the plane but assists in other ways).

Rather than Co-Champions: Each of two people are equally Champions. (For example - The Church never calls JESUS a Co-Redeemer - He is THE Redeemer).

WHY Jesus decided to have Mary BE a part of that plan is another question. The ACTUAL plan of Salvation involved a new covenant similar to the OT covenant with “Father” Abraham. < Who in a like manner is not equalto “God the Father” of course.

But - scripture calls Abraham “Father” and Mary “Mother”. High and honorary titles - to be CONSIDERED by believers, not dismissed or crabbed against. Not that you are doing such, but some folks do.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix <wikipedia (some background)

voxpopuli.org/response_to_7_common_objections_part1.php (more detailed theological look at the doctrine and objections to it).

Great anser.

 

[Love4All]

Mary was the only person whose direct cooperation was necessary for the work of salvation to be accomplished by Christ. Without Mary’s consent, God the Son could not have been incarnate. That is the primary reason that she merits the title of Co-Redemptrix.

I would offer another reason in addition to what you’ve said: Our Blessed Mother suffered, in perfect Compassion, everything that her Divine Son was suffering in His Agony on the Cross. So He is the Redeemer; she is the Co-Redemptrix. He suffered His Passion; she suffered Her Compassion.