H
HumblePie
Guest
Could someone please explain Mary as Co-Redemptrix.
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D
DeFide
Guest
By saying yes to God, she co-operated with God’s plan of redemption.
catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9211fea3.asp
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Try this thead:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=15967&highlight=Mary+Coredemptrix
It’s quite long at 289 posts.
An FYI-- when you have a question, go to the top of your screen to the “Search” button (along the line with home, new posts, etc.).
Type in the question, or a few words. I typed in "Mary Co-Redeemer) and found a couple pages worth of threads on the topic.
It’s probably a good idea to check to see if those previous threads answer your question, or if you can narrow down your topic. As you will see when you seach, a LOT of people in those threads have addressed the question you are answering on this one.
So, you’d do well to check out those threads.
God bless.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=15967&highlight=Mary+Coredemptrix
It’s quite long at 289 posts.
An FYI-- when you have a question, go to the top of your screen to the “Search” button (along the line with home, new posts, etc.).
Type in the question, or a few words. I typed in "Mary Co-Redeemer) and found a couple pages worth of threads on the topic.
It’s probably a good idea to check to see if those previous threads answer your question, or if you can narrow down your topic. As you will see when you seach, a LOT of people in those threads have addressed the question you are answering on this one.
So, you’d do well to check out those threads.
God bless.
H
HumblePie
Guest
O, Ok.
Thank you for the tip! (and links)
Thank you for the tip! (and links)
J
JOHNYJ
Guest
This Title has been declared a Scandal to the faithful and I believe it is heretical. People keep pushing it ,usualy Marian extremists.
C
CuriousInIL
Guest
Where and when was such a declaration made and by whom?
H
HumblePie
Guest
I can see how she is a coredeemer by brining Jesus into the world. I don’t understand how she continues to be the Mediatrix of all graces.
My humble opinion, I believe the title causes confusion, and will only give fodder for anti-Catholics. Uninformed and misinformed people will think and say “there goes another one of those Catholic teachings…” It makes Catholics look like they look to Mary for Salvation in addition to Christ.
It personally bothers me because my desire is to be God focused and the Mary issues seem at time to be given prominence. Would Mary want this? I know the teachings are that Mary is to lead us to Christ. I thought it was the work of the Holy Spirit that would lead us to Christ, not Mary.
I can see the Catholic viewpoint with regard to defining Mary’s roles, but at the same time, it just doesn’t sit right with me.
My humble opinion, I believe the title causes confusion, and will only give fodder for anti-Catholics. Uninformed and misinformed people will think and say “there goes another one of those Catholic teachings…” It makes Catholics look like they look to Mary for Salvation in addition to Christ.
It personally bothers me because my desire is to be God focused and the Mary issues seem at time to be given prominence. Would Mary want this? I know the teachings are that Mary is to lead us to Christ. I thought it was the work of the Holy Spirit that would lead us to Christ, not Mary.
I can see the Catholic viewpoint with regard to defining Mary’s roles, but at the same time, it just doesn’t sit right with me.
D
DeFide
Guest
Try to avoid getting in an “either-or” mindset. Loving and honoring God’s friends is following God’s command to love our neighbor as ourselves.
1 Cor 12:21 - parts of Christ’s Body cannot say to other parts, “I do not need you”.
It also shows that we have a proper admiration for God’s achievements in his Saints. Mary just happens to be his masterpiece of creation, and the prototypical Christian. It shows God disrespect when we willfully ignore or dishonor his friends.
You may not have control of your “feelings”, but that’s OK. God doesn’t demand feelings, but only that we submit to Him with our will and our intellect. Feelings may come and go, or may be something that develops in time as you gain new perspective.
As to your first question, Mary continues her role because history is set. She will always be the New Eve who, with her humble obedience, opened the door for the New Adam who untied the knot tied by the disobedience of the orginial Adam and Eve.
I think you’re 99% of the way to dispelling the common misunderstandings of what the Church teaches about Mary’s role. Hope to see you around.
R
Robert_in_SD
Guest
Hello Humble Pie;
I think the Catechism states the issue clearly:
I agree that the idea of Marian devotion can be misunderstood by Catholics and Protestants. But the risk of misunderstanding should not dissuade christians from thanking Mary for agreeing to be part of God’s plan for salvation. Nor should we dismiss Mary’s part in salvation history out of hand because “Christ alone redeemed us.” Yes, it was His sacrifice alone that restored our relationship with God. But before that happened, Mary said “yes” to God, and she never shied away from God’s plan, even when she knelt below her Son’s bleeding body as it hung on the cross.
The simplest way to think of Mary is in terms of her maternal relationship with both Jesus (her flesh and blood son) and us (her sons and daughters by adoption). For if we are adopted sons of God by our redemption in Christ, then Mary is our adopted mother. We have a close relationship to her, and she is our example. My feelings towards Mary are akin to the feelings I have for my own flesh and blood mother. I do not worship either of them, but I love them and honor them both.
Another thought - when Christ the Son of God became a man he took on the responsibility of perfectly fulfilling the law, including the Ten Commandments which include the honoring of his father and his mother. Christ has honored his mother - Mary - by bestowing upon her a measure of His own glory, not because she merited it on her own, but becuase it is Christ’s honor and glory freely to give. We, as christians, simply follow Christ’s example when we similarly give honor and veneration to Mary our adopted mother.
When confronted about the issue, you may ask your protestant friends why they are so quick to dismiss the remarkable faith and the living example of the Mother of their Lord and savior.
-Peace
I think the Catechism states the issue clearly:
Catholics believe that the veneration (not worship) accorded to Mary is entirely appropriate given her standing as the epitome of discipleship. Contemplating Mary’s life as one of complete submission to the will of God is entirely God centered. She is a shining example of how we are to relate with God. One cannot properly contemplate Mary and her life without being pointed directly to her Son.
I agree that the idea of Marian devotion can be misunderstood by Catholics and Protestants. But the risk of misunderstanding should not dissuade christians from thanking Mary for agreeing to be part of God’s plan for salvation. Nor should we dismiss Mary’s part in salvation history out of hand because “Christ alone redeemed us.” Yes, it was His sacrifice alone that restored our relationship with God. But before that happened, Mary said “yes” to God, and she never shied away from God’s plan, even when she knelt below her Son’s bleeding body as it hung on the cross.
The simplest way to think of Mary is in terms of her maternal relationship with both Jesus (her flesh and blood son) and us (her sons and daughters by adoption). For if we are adopted sons of God by our redemption in Christ, then Mary is our adopted mother. We have a close relationship to her, and she is our example. My feelings towards Mary are akin to the feelings I have for my own flesh and blood mother. I do not worship either of them, but I love them and honor them both.
Another thought - when Christ the Son of God became a man he took on the responsibility of perfectly fulfilling the law, including the Ten Commandments which include the honoring of his father and his mother. Christ has honored his mother - Mary - by bestowing upon her a measure of His own glory, not because she merited it on her own, but becuase it is Christ’s honor and glory freely to give. We, as christians, simply follow Christ’s example when we similarly give honor and veneration to Mary our adopted mother.
When confronted about the issue, you may ask your protestant friends why they are so quick to dismiss the remarkable faith and the living example of the Mother of their Lord and savior.
-Peace
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
No. You’re wrong. The Church’s official stance has been that Mary certainly is Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, and Advocate. There is, however, a push to make this a dogma. Go here:
voxpopuli.org/withjesus.pdf
It has an Imprimatur and it states that JP2 has used the title “Co-Redemptrix” repeatedly. It is not something extreme.
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Lorik
Guest
Mary being the Co-Redemptrix does not mean she is our Savior. Just as a co-pilot is not the pilot. She helps bring people to Jesus not because he needs her to but because he wants her to. Just as she brought Jesus to Earth not because he needed her to but because he wanted her to.
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Yes, and as the Church has described this teaching, She has made it clear that all of Christ’s faithful are co-redeemers in a way. It’s just that Mary was the most significant of all.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Well stated Smitty!
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pnewton
Guest
I understand that the “co” part is no used in the since of equality and it always seems the example of the co-pilot is the one used. Most english words that use a “co” though do have a since of equality, co-star, co-anchor, co-chairman, co-host. I think the term is misleading and confusing in english. If the latin term means “with”, then perhaps it would better to use the latin term than the english.
B
BJRumph
Guest
For what little it is worth,
It helps me to remember Mary as a “typus” of the Church (see CCC) when looking at these things; and makes subjects like this make more sense (again, for me anyway) than appeals to familial relations.
The Church brings in and guides us to Christ, and as such, it is a partner in our Salvation/Redemption, even if it is not the Originator of that redemptive Grace that it itself relies upon (As only God can grant the necessary Grace).
From there, you can re-insert the personal aspect of Mary into the thought process, if that is what you desire.
It helps me to remember Mary as a “typus” of the Church (see CCC) when looking at these things; and makes subjects like this make more sense (again, for me anyway) than appeals to familial relations.
The Church brings in and guides us to Christ, and as such, it is a partner in our Salvation/Redemption, even if it is not the Originator of that redemptive Grace that it itself relies upon (As only God can grant the necessary Grace).
From there, you can re-insert the personal aspect of Mary into the thought process, if that is what you desire.
J
jpusateri
Guest
BJRumph,
Oh, that’s good…
Thanks, it was worth alot!
Oh, that’s good…
Thanks, it was worth alot!
W
Writer
Guest
Well said! I used to have an article up on my website on this topic, but decided to take it down for a while when I began trying to market my children’s books. The term has some serious problems–for example, “co” sometimes also implies equality. Much of the theology behind the term is okay, but I think the term itself goes too far and is a poor attempt at what it is trying to convey. If anyone would like a copy of the article, by the way, just drop me a note… As this term, however, also appears to have cultural connections or meaning, though, I try to stay off this topic myself as much as possible, since it is not my intention to insult another’s culture.
H
HumblePie
Guest
So as Mary continues to mediate the graces, does that mean when we recieve God’s grace in our lives that grace goes from God to Mary to Us?
or
God through Mary to Us?
God through Mary through Christ to us?
That is what is confusing to me.
J
JB
Guest
These extremists would have to include the Bishops in council at Vatican II:
Lumen Gentium:
While the prefix “co-” is not used in Lumen Gentium, as has been explained, that simply means in cooperation with, but subordinate to the Redemptive work of Jesus, which is the point of the second and third paragraphs quoted here.
D
DeFide
Guest
The “mechanism” of distributing graces is from God to us.
Just remember that the treasury of merit for the remission of our sins gained by Christ’s redemptive sacrifice on the cross came about due to Mary’s humble co-operation.
For the sake of argument and clarification, if God were to annihilate Mary (which he of course would not do), God’s saving graces would still be available to us.
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