Mary, "Queen of Heaven"

[victus]

I am interested in what some people think here on my thoughts that I have gathered recently about Mary being the Queen of Heaven. I have tried to look up what I have come to conclude, but have not found anything written describing what I am going to describe.

I came across some passages of scripture from Jeremiah that mentions a so called “queen of heaven.” In these passages idolatry is involved, by sacrificing to this “queen.” So from this I wanted to see who this “queen” was that there were worshiping. Now I know there is no other god but God. Therefore this “queen of heaven” is not real, and does not exist. But at the time the pagans and the Jews were bringing sacrifices to this pagan goddess. So after seeing different ideas of who this “queen” was, I have come to discover that this so called “queen of heaven” was the moon. Some even refer to both moon and stars as “queen of heaven.” Here is a quote from St. Thomas Aquinas regarding this fake “queen of heaven.”

…for the Gentiles, on the feasts of the moon, set up a table in front of the idol of the moon, wherefore it is written (Jer. 7:18): “The women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven.” Summa question 102, Article 4.

Then after more digging around I found that the moon being the “queen of heaven” for the pagans was also known to the Early Church. Origen wrote in his De Principiis,

In the writings of Jeremiah, indeed, the moon is called the queen of heaven. Book 1 chapter 7

Also Origen writes,

You will find at least in the book of Jeremiah the words of God censuring by the mouth of the prophet the Jewish people for doing obeisance to such objects(speaking of sun, moon, and stars emphasis mine), and for sacrificing to the queen of heaven, and to all the host of heaven. Against Celsus Book 5 chapter 8

So after seeing some of this, I then realized how similar some things are to the Queen mentioned in Heaven. It is without a doubt that there is some sort of queen mentioned in the Book of Revelation. This actual Queen that is found Revelation 12 happens to be in Heaven.

Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. Revelation 11:19 ESV

We learn more what this Queen is adorned with and we come to find out that this Woman in Revelation 12 happens to be the Queen in Heaven, for she wears a crown and gives birth to a Child who will rule with an iron rod. But if we pay close attention to the very first verse of chapter 12 we see similarities to the false “queen of heaven” mentioned in Jeremiah.

And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Now as Catholics, we have always known that the Woman is Mary and She is the Queen of Heaven mentioned here. But St. John who wrote the Book of Revelation uses key terms to describe Mary. Sun, moon, and stars are these key terms. To me I think it was St. John’s way of letting the first Century Christians know that we do actually have a “real” Queen of Heaven. For she is standing on a moon, which was a symbol for the false “queen of heaven,” and is wearing a crown of stars to show her queenship, stars being another sign for the false “queen of heaven,” and is clothed with the sun, another false king god, who in all truth she is clothed with an actual King, Jesus. I am not saying Mary is a god, but what I am trying to say is that St. John, I think is trying to say, is that we have a real “Queen of Heaven”(symbolized by standing on the moon - fake queen) who give birth to the King of kings(being clothed with the sun). I hope this makes sense to readers reading this. Please comment.

 

[Benadam]

I like it.

I think yuou are right that the moonis a symbol used in myth for that imitation of the real Queen of Heaven.

The moon symbolizes change and the queen of heaven mentioned in Jeremiah is a fertility goddess. The natural power of fertility personified. Seasonal change and fertility were powers of life to an agricultural society.

As a symbol of change and the mythic imitation of herself I find it fitting that Our Blessed Mother stands on these as someone who has subjected both. She is bathed in the light of Her Son, her heavenly sun.

The fertility cults saw time as cyclic and the moon is the perfect heavenly sign for them.

interesting note: In Joseph’s dream, the one that irritated his brothers, he dreamt the sun and moon and stars bowed down to him. That raised this question from his father;(pp) " Am I and your mother to bow down to you too?"

Anyway, myth points to Truth but, Truth Happened!.

Peace

 

[Harmony1988]

I like this too, it’s useful for someone I’m debating with. Anymore to add?

 

[victus]

I like this too, it’s useful for someone I’m debating with. Anymore to add?

If someone objects to this by saying that this makes Mary a god, because the so called “queen of heaven” in Jeremiah was a false god. Then to this I answer not so, because Mary is seen in God’s Temple(Revelation 11:19) where only sacrifices to God are made. Just imagine the the Book of Revelation as the Mass. For me as a Byzantine Catholic, in the Divine Liturgy Mary is invoked so many times. There is even a hymn dedicated to the Theotokos after the consecration. To me I see this as Mary(the Ark) being seen in God’s Temple.

 

[dandaman]

For more on this matter you should read Scott Hahn’s book “Hail Holy Queen” He goes into much depth on how Mary is the Queen of Heaven from the book of revelation. Basically one thing he says is that in the Old Testament in the Davidic kingdom it was common for a mother to rule with her son, and a son to honor his mother without the mother being more powerful than the son (king). A king could have many wives but only one mother. The mother sat at the right hand of the king. We see this in the Book of Chronicles, although I don’t know whether 1 or 2 where Solomon bows down to his mother who is interceding for the subjects of the kingdom. Solomon’s mother Bathsheba sits at the right hand of the king. Because God said the Messiah would come from the line of David we need to see Jesus as restoring the Old Testament kingdom. The new kingdom is Davidic in that Mary sits at the right hand of Jesus in the kingdom as Queen of Heaven and she too intercedes for the subjects at the wedding at Cana.

 

[TheGreenO]

For more on this matter you should read Scott Hahn’s book “Hail Holy Queen” He goes into much depth on how Mary is the Queen of Heaven from the book of revelation. Basically one thing he says is that in the Old Testament in the Davidic kingdom it was common for a mother to rule with her son, and a son to honor his mother without the mother being more powerful than the son (king). A king could have many wives but only one mother. The mother sat at the right hand of the king. We see this in the Book of Chronicles, although I don’t know whether 1 or 2 where Solomon bows down to his mother who is interceding for the subjects of the kingdom. Solomon’s mother Bathsheba sits at the right hand of the king. Because God said the Messiah would come from the line of David we need to see Jesus as restoring the Old Testament kingdom. The new kingdom is Davidic in that Mary sits at the right hand of Jesus in the kingdom as Queen of Heaven and she too intercedes for the subjects at the wedding at Cana.

I second this, I have been watching the 30 minute tv shows airing on EWTN the past few weeks, and it is based on his book above. Quite an awesome and interesting perspective on all of it. Haven’t personally been able to read it yet, but looking forward to it.

 

[benedictgal]

I second this, I have been watching the 30 minute tv shows airing on EWTN the past few weeks, and it is based on his book above. Quite an awesome and interesting perspective on all of it. Haven’t personally been able to read it yet, but looking forward to it.

I have that book. Dr. Hahn makes some very valid points in Hail, Holy Queen.

Furthermore, if you were to examine the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, which, is pretty much the only “photograph”, if you will, that we have of her, you will find that she is standing atop fhe moon and covering the sun.

 

[Ruthie]

In Kings and Chronicles, there are lists of kings, each one saying “and his mother was so-and-so.” The only mention of fathers was along the lines of “So-and-so reigned from x to x, and his mother was so-and-so. His son, So and-so, reigned from x to x…” If the next king was not the son of the previous king, the father is usually not mentioned.

And Solomon seated his mother Bathsheba at his right side, the position of power, where she dealt with (among other things) requests for charity and mercy.

This shows that, at that time (and in Jewish tradition) the queen was the king’s mother, not one of his wives. There is a practical reason for this, as most of his wives would have been political alliances, and the wife would be loyal to her own country; his mother could be expected to be loyal only to the king!

Even without the relevant portions of Revelation, it is only logical for the wifeless Jesus to appoint Mary as Queen of Heaven.

Ruthie