Mary queen of heaven

[RomanRyan1088]

Ok, i have looked alot of places, but to no avail. us as Catholics claim that Mary is the Queen Of Heaven. Now i believe this fully, but i don’t wan’t to get into a fight with a protestant, and not have no biblical backup. If im correct, catholics use a passage from the book of revelations to back this up, which says,

Revelation 12:1-2
a great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

1. Ok my 1st question, is this truly Mary, and if it is, then why is she giving birth to Jesus AGAIN? OR is this baby she is giving birth to Jesus, i haven’t read The book of Revelation so therefore I don’t know if this is Jesus or what?
2. My 2nd question is, It says “She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.” In my footnotes in the bible it says " Because of eve’s sin, the woman gives birth in destress and pain", but i thought that eve’s sin’s didn’t apply to Mary, because she was sinless?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[auhsoj88]

Mary is also the Ark of the Covenant! The Bible wasn’t broken up into Chapters and Verses until the 1400’s. So if you read the end of Revelation Chp 11 you will see it reads right into Chapter 12.

1. Ok my 1st question, is this truly Mary, and if it is, then why is she giving birth to Jesus AGAIN? OR is this baby she is giving birth to Jesus, i haven’t read The book of Revelation so therefore I don’t know if this is Jesus or what?

Yes, this is Mary. She is not giving birth to Jesus again. God is just showing John what happend and what is. John is seing a visual story, sort of like a movie! And the baby is Jesus, I mean who else can rule all nations with a rod of iron, but Jesus.

Your second Question is a good question, perhaps someone else can give you insight.

God bless!

 

[John_Mortell]

I have read somewhere that the woman of Revelations is likely symbolic of both Mary and of Israel- the direct and indirect mothers of Jesus. This would be why the Woman is pictured with a crown of twelve stars (i.e., the tribes of Israel) and suffers from Eve’s sin, but also flees into the desert, as Mary did.

 

[fulloftruth]

Because we are inheriters of Divine sonship through Christ, and we are truly considered his adopted brothers and sisters, then Mary is truly our spiritual mother, the Mother of all the Living. We, as believers and members of the Church, are also considered Christs Body,(i.e. to Saul"why do you persecute Me so".) Christ so closley related to his believers and followers as to call them “Me.” Christ had already ascended into Heaven when he spoke to Saul, now Paul, but he still said “why do you persecute Me so.” Because of this Mary is believed to have labor pains for you and me, and all future believers. She “labored to give birth”. Because she gave birth not only to Christ the person but also to his Mystical body, the Church. She Mothers us all, as the Church does also. Isn’t the Truth great!!!

 

[RomanRyan1088]

John Mortell:

I have read somewhere that the woman of Revelations is likely symbolic of both Mary and of Israel- the direct and indirect mothers of Jesus. This would be why the Woman is pictured with a crown of twelve stars (i.e., the tribes of Israel) and suffers from Eve’s sin, but also flees into the desert, as Mary did.

I’m sorry, im studying Catholisism right now, and i just dont understand what your saying. So Israel is Jesus Mother? So therefore the Direct Mother of Jesus is Mary, and the indirect mother of Jesus is Israel? So Israel suffers from the Sin of Eve, but Mary doesn’t. Am i understanding this correctly?

 

[Tom]

fulloftruth:

Because she gave birth not only to Christ the person but also to his Mystical body, the Church. She Mothers us all, as the Church does also. Isn’t the Truth great!!!

If you continue reading revelations, chap 12 I believe, at the end of the discourse about Mary it says she is the mother of all of the followers of Jesus.

 

[RomanRyan1088]

fulloftruth:

Because we are inheriters of Divine sonship through Christ, and we are truly considered his adopted brothers and sisters, then Mary is truly our spiritual mother, the Mother of all the Living. We, as believers and members of the Church, are also considered Christs Body,(i.e. to Saul"why do you persecute Me so".) Christ so closley related to his believers and followers as to call them “Me.” Christ had already ascended into Heaven when he spoke to Saul, now Paul, but he still said “why do you persecute Me so.” Because of this Mary is believed to have labor pains for you and me, and all future believers. She “labored to give birth”. Because she gave birth not only to Christ the person but also to his Mystical body, the Church. She Mothers us all, as the Church does also. Isn’t the Truth great!!!/QUOT

This is an answer i TRULY understand, i love this answer! I have to tell you all, Mary is amazing, i almost wanted to cry while reading this! Yes, the TRUTH is GREAT!

 

[RomanRyan1088]

Tom:

If you continue reading revelations, chap 12 I believe, at the end of the discourse about Mary it says she is the mother of all of the followers of Jesus.

Man, i just should have kept reading!

Revelation 12:17

Then the Dragon became angry at the woman and went off to **wage war aginst the rest of her offspring **those who kept Gods commandments and bear witness to Jesus.

WOW :clapping:

 

[metal1633]

Perhaps your going about this from the wrong direction. Try this…

There is an Aramaic word, “Gebirah”, which means “Queen Mother”. Next to the throne of the King was a second throne. Most would think the second throne belonged to the wife of the King, but in Israel it belonged to the mother of the king. The Gebirah was an official position, one with which everyone (Jesus and His disciples included) was entirely familiar. Her role was as an advocate of the people; anyone who had a petition or sought an audience with the King did so through her. She was an intercessor, presenting the wishes and concerns of the people to the King. This does not imply that the King was unapproachable, or that people were afraid or unable to speak to him. It merely means that the King honored his mother and took her requests into special consideration. On the part of the people, they felt close to her, as if they too were her children.

That’s Mary. Our Queen Mother.

 

[John_Mortell]

So Israel is Jesus Mother? So therefore the Direct Mother of Jesus is Mary, and the indirect mother of Jesus is Israel?

Technically yes, although Israel in a very indirect and symbolic sense.

Here’s the footnote in my Bible, make of it what you will:

The woman adorned with the sun, the moon, and the stars (images taken from Gn 37, 9-10) symbolizes God’s people in the Old and the New Testament. The Israel of old gave birth to the Messiah and then became the new Israel, the church, which suffers persecution by the dragon. This corresponds to a widespread myth throughout the ancient world that a goddess pregnant with a savior was pursued by a horrible monster; by miraculous intervention, she bore a son who then killed the monster.

Although, as Auhsoj88 pointed out, the Woman is implied to be the ark of the covenant: a characteristic only Mary possesses.

So Israel suffers from the Sin of Eve, but Mary doesn’t. Am i understanding this correctly?

Sure, though Fulloftruth gave a better explanation.

 

[meep]

2. My 2nd question is, It says “She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.” In my footnotes in the bible it says " Because of eve’s sin, the woman gives birth in destress and pain", but i thought that eve’s sin’s didn’t apply to Mary, because she was sinless?

I would think the physical results of sin would still be there. Jesus became like us in all things but sin–and I’m pretty sure that he toiled, as described in Gen 3:19 (“By the sweat of your brow shall you get bread to eat”), in His foster-father’s work, if nothing else.

Also, one of the penalties for Adam and Eve’s sin was emnity between the serpent’s offspring and Eve’s–don’t tell me this doesn’t apply to Mary! So original sin did not stain her soul, but by being a member of humanity (and the mother of humanity as it should be–the Church), she shares the penalties imposed on humanity.

Some wise soul on this forum (was it Ryan?) pointed out that “giving birth” points to the birth of the Church as well as the birth of Christ. Do you remember the phrase “a sword shall pierce your heart”? I think that prophecy is in Luke. Well, when Christ died, Mary’s heart was pierced–agony and distress–but what are Christs death and resurrection? The birth of the Church!

 

[Todd_Easton]

metal1633:

Perhaps your going about this from the wrong direction. Try this…

There is an Aramaic word, “Gebirah”, which means “Queen Mother”. Next to the throne of the King was a second throne. Most would think the second throne belonged to the wife of the King, but in Israel it belonged to the mother of the king.

If you would like to know where that is in the Bible? It is in 1 Kings 2:19, where the enthronement of the Bathsheba, King Solomon’s mother, as the first Queen Mother of the Davidic dynasty is described: “So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right.” Other Biblical references to the Queen Mother of the Davidic dynasty include: 1 Kings 11:19; 1 Kings 15:13; 2 Kings 10:13; 2 Chron 15:16; Jer 13:18; Jer 29:2.

 

[Salmon]

A VERY helpful source relating Catholic teaching with scripture is:

ScriptureCatholic.com

A sample at: Blessed Virgin Mary
reads:

Rev 11:19 - at this point in history, the Ark of the Old Covenant was not seen for six centuries (see 2 Macc. 2:7), and now it is finally seen in heaven. The Jewish people would have been absolutely amazed at this. However, John immediately passes over this fact and describes the “woman” clothed with the sun in Rev. 12:1. John is emphasizing that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and who, like the Old ark, is now worthy of veneration and praise. Also remember that Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1 are tied together because there was no chapter and verse at the time these texts were written.

Rev 12:1 - the “woman” that John is describing is Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Just as the moon reflects the light of the sun, so Mary, with the moon under her feet, reflects the glory of the Sun of Justice, Jesus Christ.

Rev. 12:17 - this verse tells us that Mary’s offspring are those who keep God’s commandments and bear testimony to Jesus. This demonstrates, as Catholics have always believed, that Mary is the Mother of all Christians.

Rev. 12:2 - Some Protestants argue that, because the woman had birth pangs, she was a woman with sin. However, Revelation is apocalyptic literature unique to the 1st century. It contains varied symbolism and multiple meanings of the woman (Mary, the Church and Israel). The birth pangs describe both the birth of the Church and Mary’s offspring being formed in Christ. Mary had no birth pangs in delivering her only Son Jesus.

Peace in Christ…Salmon